Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

michel · 02-08-2004, 02:59 PM

The fencing competitions of the Olympic Games replace the World Championships for the year in which they are held.
This was OK when all weapons were fenced at OG, and when these competitions were open to all countries, without another quota than those of the World Championships.
Nowadays, qualifying system is very complicated, some weapons won't be fenced at OG.

Don't you think that, like in another sports (ice skating, cycling for example), world championship should take place for each weapon in addition to OG, instead of only fence world Championship for events that are not fenced at OG ?

frenzl · 02-08-2004, 07:02 PM

it should be a world champ event, but all weapons and team events should be done.

KShan5[PrFC] · 02-08-2004, 07:24 PM

Should be done, is the operative phrase there. The whole question asks, since not all weapons are being fenced, which for now we have no control over, should it be considered the World Championship of fencing, I say no. It should count as a World Cup (if possible) in my opinion. Get all the best fencers (or most of them) in the world, have them fence, get FIE points for it, but continue to have seperate World Championships.

afc fencer · 02-09-2004, 01:24 PM

I think holding world champs in an Olympic year would be pointless. The top fencers would not pay that much attention to it.

wflaschka · 02-09-2004, 01:26 PM

The fencing World Championships ought to remain as they are, a standalone tournament. This gives fencers another pinnacle to aspire to, it gives us more fencing to watch, it encompasses all the weapons, and it will be a balm if the Olympic committee ever does remove fencing from the Olympic line-up.

The only reason to roll the two into one would be that it's cheaper on fencers and fencing federations. In terms of importance, I think the World Champs is more important than the Olympics for fencing. The Olympics are a nice promotion for fencing, but the WCh's is how progress is measured.

telkanuru · 02-09-2004, 01:33 PM

It's not like they'd show either here in the US. Peh. Stupid fencing's-not-photogenic-enough-for-us network execs.

KShan5[PrFC] · 02-09-2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afc fencer
I think holding world champs in an Olympic year would be pointless. The top fencers would not pay that much attention to it.

What about the weapons not being fenced in the Olympics? Would there just be no world champion in those said weapons, but a champ in all the others?

DHCJr · 02-09-2004, 07:56 PM

There will be a World Championship for the ladies. It will be held in conjunction with the New York World Cup in June. So we may have braging rights before the Olympics starts.

dekko · 02-10-2004, 04:34 PM

I bet everyone can remember who won the Olympic gold in some track and field events, swimming events, etc but these same people couldn't tell you who won last year's WC in the same events.

The Olympics are the pinnacle of sports regardless of the event, who is or isn't there and if a world champs were held, depending on scheduling, no top fencer would really care and if it happened before it would be treated as a warm-up for the olympics, if it's after, no one cares about going as the Olympics just happened.

If there is an event not included in the Olympics that would normally be held at a WC then it could, and maybe should, be held outside of the Olympics for those competitors.

However, I would hope that the FIE could do what ever they need to convince the IOC to allow a normal event format. This idea of a bracket from the beginning is rediculous and should be changed. It's not like they have to share the room with another event. Once the room is set-up for fencing it stays that way until all the events are done. Because of this I would not have a problem seeing a seperate WC event 'for the real fencers'.

dreadfoily · 02-11-2004, 06:48 PM

I am curious about what is the difference between a World Cup and a World Championship and also the Olympics. They all draw the same pools?

DHCJr · 02-11-2004, 07:42 PM

A World Cup, you choose to go, up to a point. World Championship, you are chosen by your country to be on the team. Olympics, you are invited by the FIE based on your ranking and/or the area of the World you are in. That is one way to look at it.

A World Cup is a place to proove yourself good enough so that you are picked for your countries World Championship Team. The Olympics are artificially restricted to cut down on costs. In fact half the fencers show up for ONE 15 touch bout. The Olympics were originally going to be the same as the World Championship. The trouble is the IOC wants to cut down on costs.

KShan5[PrFC] · 02-11-2004, 11:38 PM

Then why not jsut do rounds of pools? Top 25% get moved up each time or whatever the case may be, so that more fencing is given and the better, not the luckier fencers, excels?

DHCJr · 02-12-2004, 12:15 AM

You might ask that of Peter Westbrook. He was one of the 'Unlucky' ones at his last Olympics, which happened right here in the U.S. If you look at the competition area, it will look very familiar to those who have been to a World Championship. It is the round of 16 strips. There are exactly 4 strips, we use more at our local tournaments. But they are all decked out in Red, Blue, Green and Banana. It is all about the show or what those in charge think is show.

Artisan · 02-26-2004, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

But they are all decked out in Red, Blue, Green and Banana. It is all about the show or what those in charge think is show.

I worked for a camera crew at the Atlanta Olympic games, where we were constantly monitored by officials responsible for the "LOOK" There were official colors and materials to be used in dressing all equipment, and a booklet explained what was and was not permissible. To fall short of the "rules" was to invoke the wrath of the "Look Nazis" Sometimes their concern for "LOOK" seemed to overcome the functionality of the venue, the competition apparatus, or in our case the ability to provide a decent video feed.

DanInMI · 02-27-2004, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekko

The Olympics are the pinnacle of sports regardless of the event, who is or isn't there and if a world champs were held, depending on scheduling, no top fencer would really care and if it happened before it would be treated as a warm-up for the olympics, if it's after, no one cares about going as the Olympics just happened.
.

No they aren't. Olympic soccer, for example, is much lower in esteem than the world cup. World cup soccer is an "open" event. Olympic soccer is U25 (25y.o. and under) The FIFA did that deliberately so as to not diminish the status of the Cup.

downunder · 02-28-2004, 06:03 AM

New York World Champs/World Cup will be quite huge, hosting:

Womens Foil Individual Grand Prix with indep. Referees
Womens Sabre Individual Grand Prix with indep. Referees
Mens Sabre Individual Grand Prix with indep. Referees
Womens Foil World Cup Teams with indep. Referees
Womens Sabre World Cup Teams with indep. Referees
Mens Sabre World Cup Teams with indep. Referees

Womens Foil Teams World Championships
Womens Sabre Teams World Championships

All over 5 days....

I think that it is a reasonable compromise to not being able to fence it at the games

I don't understand why people are voting no tho,

the fact is:

it would be incredibly hard to organise, as World Champs are

the fencers would not want to have more than one major world champs-type competition a year, they'd spend their time building up for this big one, to have another lurking around the corner...

and personally i think it would deride from the olympics itself.

dreadfoily · 02-28-2004, 09:22 PM

Thanks for the clarification on the differences between World Cup, Olympics, and World Championships. If I were at that level I guess it would be very difficult. You want to be number one, and to do so, you might feel that you should fence all events; the exception being if you really feel you can pass up on the World Cup, I don't know if I could, unless I had an injury to nurse. See you around.

Nice design Craig, it gets better every year.

downunder · 02-29-2004, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadfoily

Thanks for the clarification on the differences between World Cup, Olympics, and World Championships. If I were at that level I guess it would be very difficult. You want to be number one, and to do so, you might feel that you should fence all events; the exception being if you really feel you can pass up on the World Cup, I don't know if I could, unless I had an injury to nurse. See you around.

Nice design Craig, it gets better every year.

there are several world cups each year for each weapon, and these provide the qualifications towards the olympics and seeding for other world cups/world champs