Premeditated Parry Combos!

[Talyn]

Does anyone here fence with premeditated parry combos? and which ones?

I'm just asking because I see people who obviously know which parries they are going to do when someone attacks so they can do the parries quickly and more efficiently. Does anyone here specifically think I'm going to do Counter-sixte then octave disengage (or something premeditated] riposte?

I know this is a bad thing to do because if people catch on to it then you're pretty much screwed but it could be effective as a panic reaction. [ better than just doing quarte-sixte x 5 ]

[klauver]

If I see you relying on one or two planned parries I will plan my remise based on an anticipated parry by you. Many fencers seem to rely on what I call the uni-parry which is a giant circular six.

I am wondering though if what you are seeing as people with "planned" parries are just faster than you and are not planned at all?

[Talyn]

well generally I can tell the difference between someone who has a premeditated parry and having fast reflexes.

When I disengage people who are fast they'll change to my disengagement but most people just do they're good old parries and get hit.

Everyone... EVERYONE knows someone who relies on the uni-parry

Anyway, what Im trying to find out is wouldn't it be more beneficial premeditating a set of parries to take the place of just a panic parry? like a *uni-parry? or something?

So if you do a massive preperation and they attack through it instead of parrying quarte (something they can anticipate easily) do something like quarte, counter quarte, countersixte... well you know what i mean...

wouldn't it be beneficial *training* your panic parry to a certain extent?

[klauver]

I would rather that you drill at full speed simple parry reposts. If you plan compound parrys you are going to miss a lot of scoring opportunities. If you plan multiple parrys before your repost, what happens if you don't find their blade?
Also, making too many defensive actions tends to make directors give more ROW's to the more offensive fencer/

[Talyn]

Yeh, I keep doing single parry's when I have my indivdual lesson, I guess eventually I'll build up the reflexes to act on the spot

[CarlKnoch]

Get rid of Panic Parries by practicing the different parries during bouts at your club. If you have a "Panic Parry", then you need to practice more so you don't need to revert to a paniced state during a bout. NO PANICING ON THE STRIP!

Just my thoughts...

[walrus418]

I believe it is more important to have a PROCESS in place. You should vary your parries (generally you have a choice of more than one for any given attack) and then, if it fails, you should recognize why and have a preplanned action to follow. For example, if in a high line attack you execute a circle (counter) six and not find the blade, your reaction may be to retreat and execute a SECOND circle 6 or perhaps a parry 4 (or even a Parry 1).

For every action there is a counter, and for every counter, a counter counter.

[Tireur]

If I see you relying on one or two planned parries I will plan my remise based on an anticipated parry by you

I don't know that I would plan a remise, but, I might decide on a deception of the parry.

[wflaschka]

When warming up, I do a few series to get the hand moving smoothly. 4, 6, circular 6...

P4 P6 cP6 R6 {parry 4-6-circular 6, riposte to 6}
P4 P6 P4 Rhi
P8 P6 R6
P7lift P5low Rhi

Against compound attacks, that first parry is never the end of the story anyway. When an opponent feints forward or does a 1-2 attack, a fencer can either not move their hand (tipping the opponent off that the fencer isn't buying the feints), or give "courtesy" parries that make the opponent think they're getting somewhere.

On the rare occasions when I'm prepared for the opponent's compound attack, I like the opponent to commit to their real attack at the end... so I show that I'm buying into their feints with a chain of parries -- the last one is the only one that matters to me.

[The0ne]

for me there is one uni-parry I like to use. . . Distance. Rather than focussing on being ready to do 2-4 parries in a row if I don't get the blade I try and parry at the right tempo and practice being at the right distance so that either my first parry works or I get out of the way.

[pkt]

TYK Chow, eh?
周先生?

If your timing is good, all you need are the simple parries AT THE LAST MOMENT so your opp't can't deceive your blade. This is every fencer's bread and butter.

That said, what you do depends on what your opp't does.

Know your enemy and know yourself.

I know that doesn't sound like specific answers because there is none.

It all depends. If you're dogmatic then you won't do well. Adapt and you'll survive and win.

It was pointed out to me that when I was attacked in sabre on my chest side, I don't do a quarte parry: I'd do a Molinello take the blade then cut head... yes, it's a bastard molinello... but the point is, it works. If it doesn't it morphs to become a feint head - cut chest...

PK

[epeecurian]

The most common is 4,6 I think. Then 2,6.

[wflaschka]

Originally posted by pkt
If your timing is good, all you need are the simple parries AT THE LAST MOMENT so your opp't can't deceive your blade. This is every fencer's bread and butter.

This is certainly true. But there are also occasions when you don't want to do a single parry. By making conversation with the blades, you can build your opponent's confidence, or lead them into blind alleys, or simply get them to commit to an attack. The more leaky your plumbing, the easier it is to capture plumbers and tie them up in your basement. Or a better way of putting it: Tactics of Mistake (as in, the old Gordon R Dickinson Dorsai book). Entice the adversary to commit more and more, as a means of overbalancing them.

When I keep my hand still against an opponent's preparations, they have the opportunity to get quite close with their tips. As a foilist, I don't have the benefit of decisive sabre-style parries. When I start a nice stack of parries, the opponent is kept off and kept busy, and their real attacks are much more obvious.

Also, there are always good fencers who are able to make you attempt parries, no matter how much you save for the end. Might as well get used to using a conversant hand. At the very least, a fencer is not paralyzed by thinking, "Must... keep... hand... still..." -- instead, they're playing along at being opened up, and ergo opening them up is even harder.

The last parry is the only one that matters. Ultimately, it's distance that really keeps the fencer safe, and it's distance (retreats, half-retreats with parries) that makes parries work.

[Talyn]

CLose PKT but I think I'll keep those little details to myself

I know theoretically panic parries are wrong but thats the whole point of panic parries... It's not really pre-planned... when you're out of ideas on a piste and you're in the middle of something ... it just hits you. It may be stupid, idiotic moronic and etc but you still do it

[Fechter1]

Originally posted by Tireur
I don't know that I would plan a remise, but, I might decide on a deception of the parry.

A planned remise can be quite effective (WARNING: epee POV here). Especially if your opponent has a weak transition to riposte. You just have to make sure it's quick enough, and open distance immediately afterwards.

[Grey]

I've a tendency to parry riposte when I panick. Generally I advise using parry quarte or seconde from sixte. As for Septime, I usually do a low quarte or a prime depending on the opponents distance. If your parries miss, return to Sixte and execute the next parry. I find that for me I usually catch my opponent off guard when I return to sixte after his blade disengaged from my parry (quarte). It isn't a fool proof plan but I hope it helps.