Sabre Overgloves

[NSXER]

Recently I've seen in local USFA tournaments
that competitors aren't wearing overgloves...
they pull the lame' over a regular glove and
call it good. Problem is that when extending
the sleeve pulls up and target that was initially
at the wrist is now another 3" up the arm and
stop cuts that would normally register..don't.

What is the rule?

[edew]

Overgloves or gloves with the lame material right there.

If you fence someone who doesn't have it on, call him or her on it. Yellow card for improper equipment.

It's also a safety issue.

[onesandzeros]

Just out of curiosity.. not to be snippy or anything, but how is it a safety issue?

[NSXER]

EDEW..could you reference the rule for me
so when it comes to questioning I can
have the director refer to the rule book...
thanks

[dekko]

this does break a rule but it's not a saftey issue. some may try to convince people it is but its much worse to have an epee blade scrape up your arm than it is to have a sabre blade go up there. besides if it does happen its so rare... the lame is not a saftey device, the jacket and glove are, when was the last time you saw an fie vs non fie lame the way you do jackets. there has been some talk about some lames but passing fie standards but there is no puncture test for lames like there is for jackets.

as for chapter and verse, its non conforming equipment, similar to failed weight or shim on foil or epee. if you really want to be a pain, have them show an inspection mark, lack of inspection mark, when there is none thats a red card.

[DHCJr]

First of all check M.33.

As far as the safety issue, try a blade up the sleeve. Yes, HOPEFULLY they only have the lame over the glove, but even then, if the blade goes up the lame sleeve and breaks! No, I don't think your snippy, it is a question that comes up often, too often. In fact, in Europe, I have seen less enforcement of M.33 than here. The Armorers here are more proactive, when it comes to safety.

[Peach]

I understood that the reason it is also a safety issue is that anything which acts to *guide* the blade up your arm toward the vulnerable armpit area, rather than letting it bounce off, is a safety issue. That's also why you should zip your sabre lame up all the way.

[Delmont]

Interesting, i was told that you no longer had to wear an overglove, that the rule was changed. I take it that is not true?

[DHCJr]

The rule on the target area was change, but not the rule of lame on the glove either fix or removable, nor of the guarantee that is covers the target area. In fact when the rule was change, there was confusion on some of the major manufacturers, that were making cuffs with no finger-loops fixing the position of the target. There was also confusion on the part of referees that just told fencers to fold over their old overgloves.

There was also confusion in SEMI, where you are now allowed to tape over the old overglove. That I consider was a bad decision, but what can you do.

[veeco]

Originally posted by dekko
this does break a rule but it's not a saftey issue. some may try to convince people it is but its much worse to have an epee blade scrape up your arm than it is to have a sabre blade go up there. besides if it does happen its so rare...

In over 15 years of fencing, the only puncture wound I have seen happen was from a sabre blade. And the guy basically had a blade enter a little below his wrist, and go out near the elbow. Pretty scary sight.

So pretty much anything that you can do to prevent a blade from being trapped is something good.

[NSXER]

so DHCjr what is the rule on overgloves...
do they have to be held w/a fingerloop ,tape,
no-tape and what's this business about"fold
over their old overgloves"? You've lost me......

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Folding over....

You take the finger out of the loop.

Fold the non-lame material underneath the cuff part of the manchette. Tada, you have now folded over.

And I'll agree it causes a safety concern.

[DHCJr]

I see where I made it confusing. What SEMI has ruled is you can take an old overglove with the lame material going over the back of the hand and the palm and cover it with tape. You could do no other changes to the glove, like removing the finger-loop.

When you fold over the overglove, you have taken away the means of assuring the valid target area is covered, by removing the use of the fingerloop. Thereby folding over is illegal.

Why I feel the tape is wrong, you could cover up valid target area with tape, that might be bad (the Armorers do not check fit) and then uncover the bad area when you start to fence. (The referees are supposed to check for fit (i.e. it covers the valid target area.)

Sorry for the confusion.

[NSXER]

Thank you!

[pkt]

We have had this discussion on this site in the middle of last year.

==)-----------------

To avoid all the issues discussed here, just get an electric sabre glove.

Then you get an additional benefit: one less piece of equipment... Yes, you won't be able to wash it as often as a regular washable glove, but that's one less piece of equipment you have to put on, tolug around.

I AM of the belief that a loop of stout string - I use one of those strings that was a handle of a shopping bag [the 3Rs of Recycle, reduce and reuse] - at the end of the sleeve of the lame' that loops around the thumb would fix the position of the target. When one extends. the cuff of the lame' stays exactly where it should be.

I still have this on both my practice and competition lames.

==)--------------

My stand was and still is this:
The safety issue is specious:
The only difference between a sabreur's safety equipment and those of a foilist and an epeeist is that the sabreur has a lame' that comes down to the bone of the wrist. Underneath the lame' everything's the same for all 3 weapons.

Any sabreur in his right mind [I know THAT in itself is a stretch to some people ]
~ still puts the gauntlet of his glove over the sleeve of his jacket.
~ would wear a sous plastron underneath his jacket, unless he is masochistic [which in some people's mind ALL sabreurs are.]

==)--------------

I did a bit of research last summer and finally decided not to reinvent the wheel: I got better things to do than to tilt at the windmill.

It's not that I have to get a sleeve or an elec. sabre glove: I have both. It's just the fact of trying to understand the reasoning about this business about safety that I didn't agree with.

Then I realised, money's henid this:
The fencing equipment manufacturers are behind this "safety", shall we say, buisness? One less piece of equipment means one less chance for them to sell us something...

PK

[pkt]

Suggestion to fix the position of your overglove:
sew [yes, like soldiers, we have to do a lot of sewing] one part of some velcro on the inside of your lame's cuff so it sticks out and the other part to the inside of your overglove. Do it at 3 diff't spots...

The final result should be that you cover ONLY the defined target and no more.

RESULT:
I get so many hits to the back of my sword-hand cf hits to my wrist [good distance, eh?] that sort of astounds me...and each hit by my opp't to the back of my hand usu. results in my opp't making a moment's hesitation when no light come so that I usu. score a riposte as a result...

PK

[NSXER]

Whew!!!!

[Inquartata]

Yeah. We can make even seemingly simple matters complex, can't we?

I've heard this "overglove is no longer required" rumor, too. Wishful thinking, no doubt!

[Hurriranger]

we've always called it a gauntlet and all the tournaments i've been to required you to wear on, esspecially in sabre where the blade might flick around the guard

[sabreur]

What I do is wear a normal glove, under my lame, for practice. For competitions, I have one of the gloves with lame material on the cuff, which I obviously wear over the lame.

Saves wear and tear on the lame glove.

I think the safety issue is a red herring. Even if you are wearing your glove under your lame, you're still wearing it over your regular jacket.

Cheers, MR