Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Rambaldi47 · 01-25-2004, 01:06 PM

I'm about to buy my first lame, cord, and elec foil, and I'm wondering what people consider to be the best quality.

I know as far as weapons, everyone will be biased, but I am looking for a slightly stiff weapon, but still able to flick with, and as far as the other stuff, what is the best on a budget? Thanks for the opinions!

Inquartata · 01-25-2004, 08:18 PM

Ooh, seriously conflicting imperatives there! "Best quality" and "on a budget" are usually diametric opposites...

First decision: bayonet or two-prong on the body cord and corresponding foil?

Rambaldi47 · 01-25-2004, 08:26 PM

2 prong

neevel · 01-25-2004, 09:31 PM

You're really best off going with genuine Uhlmann for 2-prong cords- the machining of the pins and set screws is that much better. If you want to save some money, just order the Uhlmann plugs and a crocodile clip, and then purchase some 18-ga speaker cord and heat-shrink tubing to assemble your own. If you have to get a complete cord and don't want to spend for Uhlmann, go with the "basic" Blue Gauntlet cord. The BG easy-fix design is neat, but the pin casings are just too fragile (yes, you can get replacements, but that's a hassle you shouldn't have to deal with in the first place-- I'd gladly pay the extra $1 or so it'd cost Mr. Chen to go to better quality pins). I don't care for the Prieur cords-- very quick and simple to repair, but the plastic retaining clip is inadequate.

The Blue Gauntlet/JL lames are the best choice in a budget lame in my experience. They're copper, but have a high strand density and fairly robust strands. As long as you wash it regularly and your sweat isn't too acidic, they'll hold up reasonably well. Avoid East-European lames.

-Dave

Tireur · 01-26-2004, 09:00 AM

Bayonet

wpotere · 01-26-2004, 10:08 AM

I have to agree with Tireur on the plug. I played with two prong and hated the way that it could fall out if the connector was bad. I switched to bayonet and never looked back.

Inquartata · 01-26-2004, 08:23 PM

"Tastes great!"

"Less filling!"

telkanuru · 02-01-2004, 12:46 AM

*shudder* As an armourer, bayonett is the bane of my existance. The spring is always messed up, falls out, etc. Too many parts, takes forever to fix, annoying, etc, etc, etc.

neevel · 02-01-2004, 08:42 PM

Never buy a knock-off LP-style bayonet plug- stick with real Leon Paul or third-party cords that use a Leon Paul plug (e.g., Uhlmann/Allstar). The East-Euro and Chinese bayonet plugs, among other things, do not use stainless or chromed parts, which means that you'll get problems with corrosion between all the contact surfaces in the plug.

-Dave

Tireur · 02-01-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

As an armourer, bayonett is the bane of my existance. The spring is always messed up, falls out, etc

I have never had this happen and I've used bayonets exclusively since the mid 70s. I have had two of the sockets break up tho. They were cheapo knock-offs.

Nothing's worse than constantly stopping the bout because someone's two-prong has slipped out.

canthidefromme · 02-01-2004, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tireur

Nothing's worse than constantly stopping the bout because someone's two-prong has slipped out.

Well it is supposed to be clipped or taped in.

neevel · 02-01-2004, 10:46 PM

Both 2-prongs and bayonets can have problems with popping out of the socket while fencing.

As I mentioned above, the plastic socket-clip that the Prieur 2-prongs use is inadequate to the task, and is a chief reason why I can't recommend Prieur cords to anyone, in spite of how easy it is to make field repairs on them.

The Uhlmann 2-prong system, with the metal retaining clip built into the plug, is far superior. I rarely see problems with real Uhlmann cords coming out of the socket, and when I do it's because either the clip was removed and never replaced, or has been badly bent and not fixed. With knock-off Uhlmann style 2-prongs it can be a different story, as the clip sometimes doesn't hook securely over the socket bracket.

With Leon Paul bayonets, what happens is that the molded nibs inside the plastic body of the socket get worn away, allowing the plug to twist and pop out in use. Making sure you don't turn the plug until it is pushed all the way down will reduce the amount of wear on the socket.

-Dave

Tireur · 02-01-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Well it is supposed to be clipped or taped in.

True, but they fall out constantly. The clips break or don't fit properly or are missing altogether.

Quote:

Both 2-prongs and bayonets can have problems with popping out of the socket while fencing.

I have never had a bayonet pop out. Ever.

neevel · 02-01-2004, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tireur
True, but they fall out constantly. The clips break or don't fit properly or are missing altogether.

I have never had a bayonet pop out. Ever.

And I've seen it happen many, many times. My club is standardised on LP bayonet, and I periodically have to replace worn bayonet sockets on weapons. Don't assume that your personal experience defines the boundaries of reality

.

-Dave

Inquartata · 02-02-2004, 12:03 AM

I used to secure those Prieur-style 2-prongs not with the plastic keeper but with one of the spring-wire rings keys come on---not the split-rings but the ones that are just a circle of wire with an overlap. It'll fit around the socket, between the two individial pin sockets, and after you plug in you slip it over the body-cord plug. Never had one pop out using those. It also doesn't come apart at inopportune moments, scattering tiny pieces around the room, like the Uhlmann/Allstar springloaded keepers...

downunder · 02-02-2004, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tireur
I have never had a bayonet pop out. Ever.

Mine does

and its decent quality too

Tireur · 02-02-2004, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Don't assume that your personal experience defines the boundaries of reality

Didn't say it did, but 30 years of use is a pretty good test, especially in the years where I was competing every week.

canthidefromme · 02-02-2004, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tireur
Didn't say it did, but 30 years of use is a pretty good test, especially in the years where I was competing every week.

I've never seen a taped in 2 prong fall out either.

Tireur · 02-02-2004, 01:38 PM

Quote:

I've never seen a taped in 2 prong fall out either

Probably not, but, who wants to tape up everytime they hook-up?

achilleus · 02-02-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tireur
I have never had a bayonet pop out. Ever.

Wow, I have the exact opposite experience.

First time I saw someone using a bayonet cord, I thought it was the stupidest thing. No one else in the area used 'em, so it was new to me. It was the final bout of a tournament and this one fencer's cord popped out every other action. I thought, 'What a stupid idea. She's using equipment that no one else has so she can't borrow, and the things don't even work.'

The knowledgable guy next to me pointed out that the bayonet's were better than the cheaper 2-prongs (Prieur with the plastic retaining clip) and cheaper than the more reliable 2-prongs (Uhlman). A good middle ground, and great if you don't like lending your equipment out, at least in that area.