Epees bent up?

[kalivor]

At a tournament this weekend, an opponent's blade was bent up when he came en guard.

When asked if I was ready, I responded "No. His blade is bent up." The referee responded by saying "He's allowed to have his blade bent up if he wants to." I asked my opponent to straighten their blade, they did so, and the bout continued.

My question is this: Was the referee's response correct? While the rules only state that the blade may only be bent in the vertical plane, I've always been taught that the blades must not be bent up. If my blade is bent up, I fix it. If my opponent's is bent up, I fix it. If I'm watching others fence, and someone's blade is bent up, I ask them to fix it.

The reason, of course, is that a blade that's bent up is unsafe. It is very likely to slip up under the mask, and can cause severe injury.

I was under the impression that the referee is responsible for safety on piste -- checking that the appropriate equipment is being used, that masks are checked, that no foreign objects find their way onto the piste, etc. Should a referee insist that the fencers' blades bend downwards?

[darius]

Actually, the ref is correct.

The rules specify a maximum deflection of the tip, and approximately where the blade should be bent, but do not specify the direction.

darius

[Black Jeebus]

Still I noticed several people at a local tournament stop to point out that their opponent had an upwards bend in their blades and the opponent then corrected it. Has anyone ever had an opponent who wanted the upward bend?

[fencingguy]

I was directing a bout in CA with a fencer who's blade was bent up. I asked him to please straighten his blade, but he refused. Technically he was right, the only type of bend not allowed, besides extremes in curvature, is a s shaped one. I was left with no leg to stand on

[whtouche]

I've heard of a couple of (low level) epeeists who prefered an upward bend because they claimed it was easier to hit on the underside of their opponants wrist.

[mfp]

Originally posted by Black Jeebus
Has anyone ever had an opponent who wanted the upward bend?

The winner of the recent Palm Springs NAC VME event uses an upward bend.

[damianip]

An upward bend is now OK.

However, the bend can only be in one direction and must be in the vertical plane of the blade. It also must be, obviously, less than 1 cm.

I gave an opponent a hard time at a tournament last year who had an upward bend but also had a barely perceptible downward bend in his blade.

After much wrangling with the director, I got him to straighten his blade. I think it rattled him enough to help me a rare victory over him.

Paolo

[The0ne]

Technically this is true with foil too--that you can have an upward bend. . . Upward flicks anyone?

[fence1848]

Originally posted by The0ne
Technically this is true with foil too--that you can have an upward bend. . . Upward flicks anyone?

Ack... No. All a person has to do to avoid an upward flick in foil is lean back slightly. In fact, they can probably avoid a few straight attacks that way, too. Since the weapon arm/hand is the only part of the body that is really vulnerable to an upward flick, it is unlikely that you will see an intentional upward bend in anything but epee.

[swordsen]

I used to keep an upwrd bend in my blade. But now that more epeeists are keeping their hands back and or down it is not as usefull a tool. And I used to have to argue with peopel about the legality of the bend too.

[yamashk]

I had an opponent at a tournament last weekend with a just barely perceptible upward bend in his blade. After a few touches, I wondered why he hadn't fixed it yet, but then remembered my coach mentioning that he liked to pick at the underside of the wrist.

[MyraTrue]

funnies thing I ever saw was at a tournament when one of the fencers SOMEHOW managed to get his blade caught somewhere in some intense action, and it ended up with a sharp downward kink, and then a 90 degree bend going back UP. It wasn't really usable anymore, but the wire hadn't broken. He goofed around with it for a bit, and you could just reach out and tap someone over or under the guard- it looked like Captain Hook.

Since we're talking about "illegal" curvature of blades, I've seen a LOT of epees and some foils that end up with random kinks in them, "kinky blades", and there isn't much you can do about that kind of bend. Are they then technically illegal because (director's discression)?

[Army Fencer]

Yes, this is actually a question on the epee ref test. And yes, like everybody's been saying, it's prefectly legal.

Oh, hi myra!

[damianip]

Originally posted by Army Fencer
Yes, this is actually a question on the epee ref test. And yes, like everybody's been saying, it's prefectly legal.

Oh, hi myra!

Are you saying that kinked blades are legal? They aren't. I may be misunderstanding you.

From the rules for epee:

Any curve of the blade must be uniform and the maximum bend must in any case be less than 1 cm; it is only permitted in the vertical plane and must be near the center of the blade.

The assumption is that "uniform" implies montonic.

Paolo

[Army Fencer]

Yes, that's what I meant. Apologies for being unclear.

[telkanuru]

Fun fact: 90-degree bends do not occur infrequently, much to my annoyance. And I hope you are not unmindful of the negative as I am not.

Out of curiosity, how is possible to bend a blade in a plane other than the vertical? Perhaps I'm just not thinking beyond epee, but it sounds very difficult.

Lastly, on a related topic, my epee blade has developed kinks. That is, instead of a smooth curve, there are a series of planes. This seems to be due to small dents in the bottom of the blade, but I swear these weren't there when the blade was new. Has anyone else had this problem and/or know how to fix/prevent it?

[DHCJr]

One simple example you see every tournament. Someone places the blade under the foot. Do they keep it so that the face with the wire is parelell to the floor, AT ALL TIMES, when they run it under their foot?

[counterattack]

Non-vertical bends are possible. I have one blade that has maybe 3mm of bend to the left. I think this must have happened over time while it was sitting in my bag. Nobody has noticed so nobody has complained, but I hate to use the blade anyway since my point is not quite where I expect it to be. Also, it turns out to be pretty hard to get horizontal bends out...

[dreadfoily]

In the rule book, I noticed that epee's can be bent upwards, while foils cannot, unless there was a change? The epeeist wants the under the arm part.