Question about Epee

[choco]

Hi guys, my gf fences epee & her coach said she shouldn't continue fencing epee. When she asked why, he said because she was short. She is a good fencer, still learning, is height really important in epee?

[frenzl]

thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard of.

[Aeric]

It's not as important at all. You just need to be more careful. An epee from the hand to the point is the same for all fencers.

For instance, Jan Viviani is one of the best epee fencers in the country, and he's about 5'10".

[noodle]

height is one advantage
being short generally implies that one is capable of being quicker over short distances, which is also another advantage

stephanie eim is 5'3 and #1 in the senior womens' epee standings

if she enjoys epee the most, she should stay epee

[achilleus]

The people mentioned above are exceptions to the rule. If you take a look at the top international competitors, most are tall.

Height is a factor. Is it the end all be all? No, then again no one factor is.

Course, this all matters if the goal is competitve success. If the goal is what the person enjoys most, then whatever floats their boat.

[veeco]

Most sabre, foil, high level competitors are taller than the average as well.

I fail to understand why if she likes epee and thinks she can be good at it her coach shouldn't let her do it.

Just the fact that there are some exceptions to the rule means that she could do it, so if her coach doesn't believe in her capabilities perhaps she should try and find another one...

[whtouche]

Originally posted by achilleus
The people mentioned above are exceptions to the rule. If you take a look at the top international competitors, most are tall.

Height is a factor. Is it the end all be all? No, then again no one factor is.

Course, this all matters if the goal is competitve success. If the goal is what the person enjoys most, then whatever floats their boat.

A disproportionate ammount of high level fencers are also left handed.
All us right handers should just take up a different sport I guess.

[MikeHarm]

I think rather than looking this as a reason not to do epee, she should look at it as a test of her coach's IQ and ability to teach epee.

[Namir]

I whould recomend she stay with it and get better, that way she can tred all over her coach. That whould be hillarious.

[telkanuru]

The thing is, even if you are short, you are still within striking distance of your opponent's hand, and since all blades are of equal length, there is no discernable advantage in being tall, except a longer lunge, and that's not a problem that will be solved by swiching weapons. Closer target and hit first!

[Katman]

Speaking as a short person myself (5'4"), I would just like to say that's utter crap. I'll fence whatever the hell weapon I want to.

[veeco]

Originally posted by telkanuru
The thing is, even if you are short, you are still within striking distance of your opponent's hand, and since all blades are of equal length, there is no discernable advantage in being tall, except a longer lunge, and that's not a problem that will be solved by swiching weapons. Closer target and hit first!

There is definitely an advantage in general in fencing in being tall, esp. if you have long limbs. It doesn't mean you cannot overcome this advantage, but since the hand and the arm are not primary targets (even in epee, you will have a better success rate at hitting the body than the arms), it is better to have long limbs. And usually people with long limbs are the taller ones.

But you can fence epee, and be good at it, while still being shorter than the average. This year's national champion in France in men's epee is rather short compared to some fencers he had to fence to win. If you are quick, smart and can push that blade in front of you away, you can hit those tall guys.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by whtouche
A disproportionate ammount of high level fencers are also left handed.
All us right handers should just take up a different sport I guess.

You mean 'French high level fencers'.

There are tons of strong righties, not only a couple of exceptions...

Here's the bottom line:

We don't know the coach. He could be a foil coach who hates giving epee lessons. He could be great at evaluating talent, and realized that this student is not an exception in the making, and that she would be a stronger competitor at foil. He could just be an ***.

That said, if you don't trust your coach, get a new one. You can't learn anything effectively from a coach you don't trust. If your goal is competitive success, and you trust your coach, then listen to what she/he says.

If you have questions about what a coach wants or means, ask the coach in question. A group of semi-anonymous people who don't know the situation can give only minimal help at best.

[telkanuru]

Originally posted by Katman
Speaking as a short person myself (5'4"), I would just like to say that's utter crap. I'll fence whatever the hell weapon I want to.

As a 6'1" person, I must acknowledge your superior knowledge in the area, but I'd also say that 4 out of 5 of my touches in each bout is on the wrist. This is perhaps because I am a low-level fencer fencing low level fencers who tend to open their wrists.

That being said, riddle me this: if the majority of the touches in epee are acually to the chest, and thus hight is a minor advantage, why would foil (with all the touches to the chest) be any better. The taller person would definitely get more reaction time. I've seen with regularity taller persons pull off a counter-attack while retreating and never getting hit because of their arm length.

[damianip]

For Veeco, I have two words:

Frantz Philippe (or is it Philippe Frantz?)

He was pretty short as I recall, and pretty damn good.

For everyone else,

Lest we all get too concerned with height in epee, remember that Pavel Kolobkov, the dominant epeeist of the last decade is only six feet tall.

Then again, Jeannet and Milanoli are pretty tall, and Srecki, Striegel and Kaaberma are giants.

As stated previously, height is just one factor and doesn't necessarily exclude one from epee. Certainly, this is true if you are only going to be competing, at best, nationally.

You might need a new coach.

Paolo

[Katman]

Originally posted by telkanuru
As a 6'1" person, I must acknowledge your superior knowledge in the area, but I'd also say that 4 out of 5 of my touches in each bout is on the wrist. This is perhaps because I am a low-level fencer fencing low level fencers who tend to open their wrists.

That being said, riddle me this: if the majority of the touches in epee are acually to the chest, and thus hight is a minor advantage, why would foil (with all the touches to the chest) be any better. The taller person would definitely get more reaction time. I've seen with regularity taller persons pull off a counter-attack while retreating and never getting hit because of their arm length.

So to attack the taller one you close distance and, with priority, stick 'em.

Or in epee, you close distance, make sure the other person's point is out of the way, and stick 'em.

Or in sabre, I'd imagine, you close distance and, with priority, whack 'em.

If they see me coming and nail me to my reel with a counter-attack, it means I haven't attacked very well.

Is the foil comment directed at me or everyone in general? If it's just me: I chose foil because I like foil, not because I find myself better or worse at it due to my height.

That all aside, I would like to reiterate my original point: It's garbage to tell a fencer what they should choose to fence based on thier height alone.

[Black Jeebus]

Theres a short girl in our club who fences epee really well. Of course our coach said she fenced it really well in spite of her height, but hey...

[swordsen]

Short epeeists just have to use a different game. If you are going to play the wrist and arm thing then height really don't matter because your opponent's wrist will be one blade length away from you at the appropriate time. Doesn't matter how tall he or she is or how long their arms are. Just how long your and their blade is. Now when you start dealing with the body and you are short you had better be able to control their blade or you are going to get scewered on your way in. No hiding behind ROW here.
(edit- I should never typ first thing in the morning)

[noodle]

That being said, riddle me this: if the majority of the touches in epee are acually to the chest, and thus hight is a minor advantage, why would foil (with all the touches to the chest) be any better. The taller person would definitely get more reaction time. I've seen with regularity taller persons pull off a counter-attack while retreating and never getting hit because of their arm length.

i can vouch for the body shots in epee deal. i can distinctly remember a time when i would hit a lot of arm shots. i was pretty good at it. but i was pretty bad in general. now that i'm (*cough*) better, 9/10 of my points are to the body (i distinctly noticed this last weekend at my <a href="http://www.fencing101.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=128">latest event</a>)

as for tall people in foil, yes it sure is a big advantage. i used to fence foil. the height helped me do exactly what you say. but foilists definitely better than i would always manage to finish the attack. everyone's natural advantages rather even out in the end.

[swordsen]

Actually, if both fencers are working for the chest, than the advantage goes to the taller/longer armed fencer. If he can hit you in the chest while your tip is still 3 inches from his you have a problem. Shorter fencers need to work the forward periphery of their opponent and be able to decieve and get inside on them.