Political discussion on Israeli fencers barred from tourney in Aqaba

[canthidefromme]

And here we thought sport was supposed to transcend politics.

[Strytllr]

And here we thought sport was supposed to transcend politics.

You're kidding right? Since when has international sports ever transcended politics? It hasn't happened in a while (I believe 80 and 84 between USA and USSR), but I'm not surprised. Disappointed sure, but not surprised.

[DHCJr]

The trouble is, there is a difference. The Soviet Union did not ban us from coming in '80 and we didn't ban them. I know they won't do it, but I hope they tell Jordan, if that's what you want, your tournament will not be considered for points.

[big poppa]

" a little people , a silly people , petty , barbarous and cruel".

[40Saberthieves]

I wouldnt like to be an israli sabre with a jordanian opponent.

Im sure they will both be carded for brutality.

[darius]

"I have apologized nicely to the Israelis, but they didn't accept" the reason, Atiyat said. "I believe their insistence to participate is politically motivated."

Sickening.

darius

[whtouche]

It's saddening that there are entire regions of the world where stupidity and ignorance is so pervasive. I hope the israeli athletes have a safe trip.

[40Saberthieves]

I hope that the Israeli's win.

[The0ne]

This is why lame people should not fence. Ruining a sporting event for politics is really dumb.

[gojujay]

A true competitor wouldn't allow the politics of a participant's COUNTRY to influence his willingness to compete against that PERSON. How many people agree with their POLITICAL leadership 100% of the time. Quite frankly, anyone who would refuse competition is probably looking for a way out that can save face. Black cards all around. cowards

[duel mom]

"It's saddening that there are entire regions of the world where stupidity and ignorance is so pervasive"

Excuse me? Around the world this is the problem, who is the stupidist? Everyone has a frame of reference, I take exception to your blanketing all Arabs as stupid.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

First of all he never said all Arabs ares tupid or ignonratn, he just said some reasons. Second, he probably was calling the Jordinian fencers stupid, or their fencing alliance, which ever one was refussing to fence the Israelis. Where di he in fact blanket all Arabs as stupid or ignorant??

Finally, people who are offended by such statements, whether they are Arab or not, need to get over themselves. As an American, there is a perception that we are all fat and lazy, do you think I care who calls me what?

So to sum up, he never called Arabs stupid or ignorant, and get a life.

[veeco]

Originally posted by KShan5[PrFC]
Finally, people who are offended by such statements, whether they are Arab or not, need to get over themselves. As an American, there is a perception that we are all fat and lazy, do you think I care who calls me what?

Sometime ago, there was a perception that all jewish people were stealing and cheating people, or that black people were all less intelligent or less "refined" than white people. I am sure some of them didn't care, but I am also sure that some of them did. The fact that you are not offended by the fact that some people view americans as fat and lazy doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't. And that also means that some arabs (or jordanians) have the right to be offended to be called stupid, especially if it is because of the actions that they haven't themselves done or agree with.

A friend of mine is from Jordan (he lives in the US now) and he is a fencer. While I don't know his point of view on this particular issue, I think I can safely say that he wouldn't necessary like to be portrayed in the same light as the people who made this stupid decision.

The fact is that there are always been tensions between Arabs and Jews, and there will probably always be. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being stupid; sometimes being brought up in a specific environment with stupid people around is enough to mold your views in a stupid way until you can see the issue under a different angle.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

I think people who are offeneded need to grow up. But if you look beyond that, he never actually called Arabs stupid. She made the assumption he was talking about just Arabs...made a Freudian Slip?

[Strytllr]

I dont think that this the time nor the place to get into a bitter argument about personal opinions of either the arabs or the israelis (just to hopefully stave off the direction of this conversation).

I'm happy for the israeli fencers and wish them the best in what could possibly be a very trying and stressful situation. I feel sad for the Jordanian (and other arab fencers) who are put in this situation because of their countries' prejiduces.

I certainly agree and wish that politics did not play such a big role in affairs like this. But remember, whenever you travel abroad, regardless of where you are from, you are a representative of your country (whether you agree with all it's policies or not). As such a representative, you have certain responsibilities and liabilities atached to your every action, and will be held accountable, along with your country, for things that you do. If all such "representatives" acted respectfully and politely, perhaps our frequent misconceptions wouldn't arise so often.

[whtouche]

Originally posted by duel mom
"It's saddening that there are entire regions of the world where stupidity and ignorance is so pervasive"

Excuse me? Around the world this is the problem, who is the stupidist? Everyone has a frame of reference, I take exception to your blanketing all Arabs as stupid.

Take whatever you want. After having written my post and having previewed it, I understood that it may be perceived the way that you seem to have perceived it(wrongly) and chose not to change it based on the fact that such people that would perceive it in such a way deserve to get themselves all worked up over nothing. So take all the exception and umbrage that you would like, you're jousting with a windmill.
Clearly I could explain my original post a little bit more, but in liu of an actual explanation I will clarify, as Kshan already did, that I was not as you accuse, making a blanket statement about all arabs. Hell, you don't even know that I was talking about the middle east, I never specified
The reason I'm not going to clarify for you, is that the type of people that are going to fly off the handle in response to my first post don't deserve an explanation. The type of people I'm interested in communicating with, understood.

[pkt]

Originally posted by big poppa
" a little people , a silly people , petty , barbarous and cruel".

I take umbrage for that statement if you're directing that to the Arabs.

[For what it's worth, Craig, methinks this thread should be in the watercooler section for this very political nature.]

Remember, if the Bible is to be believed, the Arab and Jewish peoples share the same father: Abraham though of diff't mothers. It's another one of those trials that Jehova puts in the path of His "chosen people" to test them.

As an agnostic and a Chinese, I think the "chosen people" have failed miserably.

PK

[pkt]

Originally posted by onesandzeros
Ugh.... this makes me so mad...

*sorry.. just had to say it.

If this makes you mad, then you should find out what the Isreali government is doing. it'll make you even madder. For the longest of time in the 60s I couldn't understand - without doing the research - why the Palestinians were refugees in Palestine. Do some research it'll make you understand the cause of this 'unfortunate' sport kerfuffle. In the scheme of things, I understand why the Arabs are doing this.

In WWII, when the Nazis occupied other European countries the various nationals of the occupied countries resisted the occupiers using various means including killing of the occupier's soldier using bombs, etc. These nationals were called "The resistence" and given kudos.

What do we in the West call the people who resist those who occupy Palestine, the homeland of the Palestinians?

Terrorists.

That's what the Nazis called the Resistence fighters.

Who's side is the UN on in this regional dispute? Who's doing the annexing of territories of another people? Who's building the new equivalent "Berlin Wall"? Can you say "Lebensraum"? If you do not know what "Lebensraum" is, look it up. Then look at the scenario in Palestine.

Pay heed:
He who understands the past controls the future.
~ Orson Welles.

No, I'm an agnostic and I'm Chinese.

PK

[pkt]

Originally posted by duel mom
"It's saddening that there are entire regions of the world where stupidity and ignorance is so pervasive"

Excuse me? Around the world this is the problem, who is the stupidist? Everyone has a frame of reference, I take exception to your blanketing all Arabs as stupid.

Duel mom,

I agree with you.

PK

[pkt]

Originally posted by whtouche
It's saddening that there are entire regions of the world where stupidity and ignorance is so pervasive. I hope the israeli athletes have a safe trip.

I hope EVERYONE have a safe trip.

==)-----------

This whole incident arise not out of stupidity and ignorance. It arises out of frustration.

It all started after WWI. Laugh if you want, but pls read the history books before you laugh. Had Lawrence of Arabia not been betrayed by his own government; had the British gov't honoured the pacts Lawrence made with the Arabs, all this problems we see in the Middle East would not have come to pass.

He who understands the past controls the future.
~ Orson Welles.

PK