Patent

[fencinman89]

I have an idea for a helpful piece of equipment. I was wondering if anyone knew how to patent it.
-Tre'

[damianip]

Originally posted by fencinman89
I have an idea for a helpful piece of equipment. I was wondering if anyone knew how to patent it.
-Tre'

Start here:

http://www.uspto.gov/

Paolo

[Artisan]

Originally posted by fencinman89
I have an idea for a helpful piece of equipment. I was wondering if anyone knew how to patent it.
-Tre'

First make drawings and a clear description of it and how it functions.
It helps it you can build a prototype or model, but it is no longer required. You can then make a "Provisional Patent Application, which is only $75 and lasts one year - provisionally to establish your "territory" by documenting it, but guaranteeing nothing. Then you must make a formal patent application. Fees start
$500 for the application alone. Lawyer fees can run 3k- 10k. When the application is submitted by your lawyer, nothing happens for months, then you get mail saying approved or denied, or something in between, depending on how good your lawyer was at doing threasearch and writing the draft. If it is denied, you have to change it and try again.

That said - think very hard if you actually want a patent - or to go through the process. A patent provides no safeguard that someone won't manufacture your device exactly as you have or perhaps slightly modified to side step one of your claims, sell it for less than you could ever imagine producing it for, and then wait for YOU to sue them for infringement.

Oh yeah...that just for the USA. Foreign patents are also available all over the world.

Avoid "Invention Brokerage Services" and mail order get rich quick patent lawyers. You'll waste money and get nowhere fast. They are scammers.

Many people simply try to get to market first, and make patent applications if and when they see some profit.

[The0ne]

so basically since I assume that it's a fencing product, you probably won't make enough money to make it worth it!!! But are you going to do any research whether the market is open to your idea? What kind of helpful device would this be?

[fencinman89]

i dont plan on telling you what my idea is due to the fact that someone may take it.
But I have a few hints:
-It will be used for epee.
-It is for the tip.
-In the long run it saves money.
-Epeeist will enjoy it very much.
Any guess?
-Tre'

[The0ne]

Epee. . . Well I don't really care then!

[wflaschka]

Um... something that seeks body heat?

[Hyperion1250]

Screwless epee tips have been invented

[fencinman89]

I know that Hyperion.... and it doesnt seek body heat.
-Tre'

[Hyperion1250]

hmmm.... could it possibly be a NEW kind of tip with screws, or something to keep the screws in?

[fencinman89]

getting closer.....
-Tre'

[Victor]

Is it animal, vegetable or mineral?
Is it larger or smaller than a goat bladder?
Can it be found in Britney Spears' panties?
How many other fencers will waste their time playing "Guess My Patent!?" ...

If the idea is any good, someone else has already thought of it and figured out there's no money to be made. So skip the costly, time-consuming patent process and just do the darn thing already.

[Hyperion1250]

"Frenchman Blade Condoms"..... protect your tip and keep rust off....

[fencinman89]

Do those really exist? LOL. Not having fun Victor?
-Tre'

[JEC]

Sorry, but it is likely not worth the effort.

[Gav]

Off to the Water Cooler we go ...

[Mar98]

a laserpointer!

.. had the idea last week for foil ..

mar98

[Hyperion1250]

I actually had an idea to wear a lame and sabre mask, and then splice off the ground on my bodycord to them. In epee.... no hits above the waist would be valid

[CvilleFencer]

Should you ever decide to patent a device, publishing the concept or drawings on the internet counts as a published idea giving you a clear time of creation, and then you May or may not reduce it to practice as you wish. Also if you can get it filed by SUBJECT MATTER in any library that is open to the public, that will also establish your date of invention. As a general rule as mentioned above most minor fencing gadgets are not worth the effort to patent due to their potential commercial success.

Also a patent will only protect you for the US market, and if someone outside the states sells the item in the US you must pursue the matter in a foreign court or attempt to get an injunction on the use/sale/import here in the states. However the MPEP is very clear that the more you can do to establish the invention as being you proprietary intellectual property the easier it will be for the patent examiner to verify your claim and allow you to proceed with the patent process.

As to whether or not to get a patent lawyer, it depends on your business plan, but figure 200 and hour on the east coast, along with 800-3000 (depending upon invention claims, etc.) in USPTO fees you are looking at around 3-8000 dollars for a very simple patent.

PM me if you would like more info.

[blue_falcon]

You're quite correct in the process but be careful of what you do in the market if you DO want to patent the invention. There's a one year on-sale bar in the US -- you're not allowed to patent something that's been on sale for a year. So if you sell your invention (e.g. you sell a prototype to the general public on 04 Jan 2004), you have one year from that point (i.e. 04 Jan 2005) in which to file a patent application at the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) for that invention. That, unfortunately, only applies for the US and, actually, Canada as well. A lot of countries (e.g. Japan and some of the EU countries) have an absolute novelty bar. If your invention is available to the public BEFORE you file it anywhere in the world, you can't get a patent.

No, let me rephrase, you CAN get a patent but it won't be worth the paper it's printed on because it's so open to attack it's not funny.

The fees for filing an application at the USPTO can be found at their website (I don't know them off-hand -- the damned bastards keep raising the prices!). As for lawyer's or agent's fees, it can be as low as a few thousand to, well, sky's the limit. I know of one firm in Michigan that doesn't even look at simple mechanical inventions (which I think yours would fall under) for less than US $5k. And this was like a year or so ago. I imagine prices have gone up since. So be prepared. I'd say it would cost about (minimum) US$ 4k - US$ 6k for a large-ish US firm to write your application for you. IF you go to a smaller firm (maybe one that has 2-3 people in it), you can probably get it done for like US$3k.

Oh, and you don't have to see a patent lawyer for this. You can see a patent agent as well -- that's someone who is licensed to practice before the USPTO and to represent people at the USPTO. Actually, you don't even HAVE to have an agent but it's a damned good idea. Agents will, generally, cost the same as a patent lawyer. There are, of course, agents that are cheaper.

You could, theoretically, write and file your own application. However, there are nuances that may not be readily apparent to the layperson. I have a client who actually did this and well, suffice it to say that his applcation isn't worth the paper it's printed on right now.

One thing a patent lawyer/agent may try to sell you on is doing a "search" for prior art. Basically, this means that the lawyer/agent will search patents worldwide (and other non-patent references) for indications of whether your invention is new or not. If he/she finds a reference that renders your invention non-new (i.e. someone else thought about it and published his/her thoughts -- possibly as a patent or maybe got to market before you so that the idea of the invention is available to the general public), then you can't really get a patent. If there's something out there that renders your invention obvious in light of what's out there, then it's very arguable as to whether you'll get a patent or not. A search, while not required, can at least give you an indication of whether your invention is patentable or not. Ok, not a DEFINITIVE indication but at least you'll know what's out there in the field. I'm not sure what US firms charge for a patentability search but it can't be cheap -- at least it'll be cheaper than a full blown formal application. You can save some money by doing the search yourself. There's quite a few websites on which you can search worldwide patents for your invention.

I also agree that you really should think hard about whether you want to patent it or not. A patent doesn't give you anything except a right to be heard in court. Basically it gives you the right to sue someone for doing something that a patent says only you have the right to do. A patent can be seen as useless unless you're willing to enforce it, meaning are you willing to drag people into court (with all the attendant headaches and costs!) to protect your idea? There are firms out there that do contingency suits for patents so that's a possibility but .....

And if you're thinking worldwide patents, be VERY careful. A small fortune can easily be expended patenting in even just a few countries. Japan can cost as much as US $10k for the translations alone! And in Europe the costs for the lawyers' fees can get exorbitant. And there are translations required there as well -- we're talking possibly another US$5 - 10k for translations alone in Europe. Oh, and on top of that, the patent will NOT get you anything unless you're prepared to take people to court in those countries. By the way, the prices I mentioned above for Japan are only related to filing the application! There's also the cost of prosecuting (arguing for the patentability) the application.

If you want to get ot market first and then see if you can make a buck or two out of it, the cheapest way to (possibly) protect your invention may be what Artisan advises -- file a provisional application first so you'll at least have a year in which to see if you can make some $$ out of it. IF you can and you tihnk that it's worth protecting after a year, then you'll have to file a full formal application in not only the US but also in any other jurisdiction in which you wish to protect the invention. If you think you'll only need protection in the US, then file the formal application only in the US.

Good luck man. If you need any more info, PM or email me. Patents -- they ain't cheap.

Originally posted by Artisan
First make drawings and a clear description of it and how it functions.
It helps it you can build a prototype or model, but it is no longer required. You can then make a "Provisional Patent Application, which is only $75 and lasts one year - provisionally to establish your "territory" by documenting it, but guaranteeing nothing. Then you must make a formal patent application. Fees start
$500 for the application alone. Lawyer fees can run 3k- 10k. When the application is submitted by your lawyer, nothing happens for months, then you get mail saying approved or denied, or something in between, depending on how good your lawyer was at doing threasearch and writing the draft. If it is denied, you have to change it and try again.

That said - think very hard if you actually want a patent - or to go through the process. A patent provides no safeguard that someone won't manufacture your device exactly as you have or perhaps slightly modified to side step one of your claims, sell it for less than you could ever imagine producing it for, and then wait for YOU to sue them for infringement.

Oh yeah...that just for the USA. Foreign patents are also available all over the world.

Avoid "Invention Brokerage Services" and mail order get rich quick patent lawyers. You'll waste money and get nowhere fast. They are scammers.

Many people simply try to get to market first, and make patent applications if and when they see some profit.