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Senior Member
Array Report On FIE Congress, Leipzig, 2003/11/22-23 This is a report by the CFF's President to the CFF memebership.
Cdn perspective on this event.
Pls NOTE THE EFFECTIVE DATES after the relevant sections.
In this regard, this is a better report than the other we've seen.
BTW, in British English which Cdn use mostly, "tabled" means presented, not the American usage meaning "put on the back burner". Very confusing.
PK http://www.fencing.ca/news/2003nov_f...ess_report.htm
REPORT ON THE FIE CONGRESS / RAPPORT SUR LE CONGRΘS DE LA FIE
LEIPZIG, 22-23 NOVEMBER 2003
There were over 100 different proposals that had to be discussed and voted upon at this year's Congress. I will not concern myself in this report with those proposals that merely attempted to redress certain deficiencies in the FIE's current Statutes, but rather focus on all those that have a bearing or impact on either us as a federation, or our fencers in the exercise of their sport in the international forum.
In all, 88 of the current 114 member states of the FIE were present at the meeting where the large catalog of proposals was systematically presented and decided upon. I will follow the same procedure as the FIE and relate all the decisions that occurred and are of interest to us, in order of their presentation, outlining the consequences for us:
Following a German proposal that was adopted relative to fines that need to be paid if a delegation presents itself at an FIE event without the requisite number of referees, we can expect that all organizers will seriously apply the rule and sanction the delegation accordingly, unless arrangements have been made previously and the fine paid to the organizer ahead of time. The FIE Observer's task will include oversight of this situation. In any case, a federation advising the organizer 15 days ahead of the event will be fined 500, and that will climb to 1000 if the notice comes less than 15 days ahead. APPPLICATION - IMMEDIATE.
Doping infractions have led to the adoption of a process for fencing where, as soon as a positive result (of sample A) has been delivered, the fencer in question is immediately suspended as of the date of the competition where the sample was collected. APPLICATION - 1 JANUARY 2004
The salute once again has been subject to slight revisions as to the application of a sanction against those not doing it as prescribed. Thus the Rules have been rewritten and the pertinent part of article t.87 now states that the fencer(s) refusing to salute will immediately be suspended for the end of the competition, and the following 2 FIE competitions, however the final hit that was given remains valid, and any title and points earned are also counted as valid. APPLICATION - 1 JANUARY 2004
Following a rather blatant display in Cuba of a fencer taking advantage of the fact that a warning is usually given for hitting outside the strip, the Congress voted to change that rule. A hit voluntarily given outside the strip will now be immediately sanctioned by a red card (from Group 1 to Group 2 infraction). APPLICATION - 1 JANUARY 2004
Passivity was once again the subject of vigorous debate, however, the Rules Commission finally proposed a solution that was approuved by the Congress. If manifest passivity occurs on the part of both fencers in the last minute of regulation time, the referee does NOT interfere if the scores are not even. However, in the case where scores are even, the referee immediately calls a last minute, preceded by the drawing of lots, and the first hit (sudden death) wins the bout. In the case of this occurring in the team match, then the referee would immediately move on to the next match. APPLICATION - 1 JANUARY 2004
Anyone disturbing order will now be subject to an immediate yellow card that can be followed by a black card (exclusion) at the discretion of the referee. This simply identifies the proper penalty to apply in this case. APPLICATION - IMMEDIATE
Side judges will now be expected to change ends at each match in team matches, just as they currently change after each 3-minute interval during the individual events. APPLICATION - 1 JANUARY 2004
Referees should take note that Rule t.120 has been modified: in all instances where a fault done by the fencer results in a hit (e.g. handling the electric equipment, corps-ΰ-corps in S and F, substituting target, removal of the mask before HALT), new asterisks will be added indicating that the hit should be annulled so that the fencer cannot benefit from making the fault. APPLICATION - 1 JANUARY 2004
For all World Cups, the federations must now send their registrations to the organizer 15 days ahead of the event, indicating the names of all fencers, all replacements, the head of delegation, and the names and categories of their referees. Organizers will be fined 1000 if they accept ANY fencer that has not been thus pre-registered, any registration not submitted by a federation, and any fencer or referee that is not the holder of a current, valid FIE licence. APPLICATION - 1 JANUARY 2004
Multiplying coefficient applied to World Cups is of 1, for Grand Prix it will be 2, and for World Championships, 3. APPLICATION - 2004-05 SEASON
No coach, team captain, DT member, or any other official delegate accompanying a team may also act as referee for that delegation at an event. In effect, a referee can only referee, and not fulfill any other task. - APPLICATION - IMMEDIATE
Colour designs on the face of the mask are now allowed, however, all such designs must first be submitted to the FIE for approval. APPLICATION - IMMEDIATE
At all FIE events, fencers must wear their name and nationality on their backs in navy-coloured capital letters. The national designs (in our case the arm patch and maple leaf strip for the leg) must be worn at all times for all World Championships (senior and junior), and from the DE 64 for senior World Cup, and for all matches in Team World Cups. In case of non-compliance, the fencer will receive a red card every time he/she comes on the strip, but will be allowed to fence his/her match. APPLICATION IMMEDIATE
A small modification has been added to article t.86 dealing with a fencer's non presentation on the strip. A section has been added to deal with the situation occurring in the course of the bout, be it in individual or team events. Here also, the referee will repeat the call twice, at one minute interval, and then exclude the fencer if he/she has not shown up to the piste at the 3rd call. APPLICATION - IMMEDIATE
Several proposals regarding team competitions were also considered. After some debate, the Congress agreed that at all World Cup events, for the purpose of setting the DE tableau, the teams ranked 1-4 will maintain their place as earned, but the position on the tableau for all other teams will be decided by drawing of lots by groups of two. APPLICATION - 2004-05 SEASON (post Olympics)
Another proposal regarding team competition at World Championships and Olympics saw the Congress agree there should be no drawing of lots for placement on the tableau, but rather each team would occupy the place it has earned at that point in the team world ranking. APPLICATION - 2004-05 SEASON (post Olympics)
It was further decided that teams at both World Cups and World Championships would fence off for position for only the top 16 places. This means there will be a modification in the way that points are awarded and teams placed 17th and higher will all each receive 8 points and keep the place they earned in the initial tableau. APPLICATION - 2004-05 SEASON (post Olympics)
Technology has motivated the introduction of a new rule requiring that, at all three weapons, the fencers' equipment is checked to make sure they are not wearing any hearing devices or any other apparatus that would allow them to receive instructions from someone outside the piste during the bout. If such a device is noticed, the referee must take the (supposed) fraudulent piece of equipment and turn it over immediately to the resident expert (SEMI or armourer). Furthermore, the fencer is penalized with a black card (for fraudulent practice under unsportsmanlike conduct). APPLICATION - IMMEDIATE
A fundamental review of the World Cup circuit was approved and will mean a far leaner circuit in the 2004-05 season following the Olympics. In each weapon, the circuit will consist of 14 events, of which 9 will be World Cups (4 Europe, 2 Americas, 2 Asia, 1 Africa) and 5 Grand Prix ( 2 Europe, 1 in each of the other continents), with all Grand Prix to necessarily be accompanied by a team event. As discussed earlier, WC will be weighted by a coefficient of 1, GP, of 2, and World Championships, of 3. Rankings will take into consideration only 6 results, as well as World Championship results, and of those 6, a maximum of 3 only may be acquired on the same continent. Participation in the Grand Prix will be limited to 8 fencers per nation, but the organizing nation will be allowed to enter an additional 12 fencers for a total of 20. In the case of World Cups, there is no change in participation rules and, therefore, the quotas remain in place. The FIE hopes to be able to put in place a budget that will assist in funding the presence of the 2nd observer required at Grand Prix events. APPLICATION - 2004-05 SEASON (post Olympics).
The Congress also disposed of some urgent business, awarding the 2005 World Junior/Cadet Championships to Linz (Austria), the 2004 Veterans event to Granz (Austria), and the 2005 Veterans to Tampa (USA). Olympic qualifying tournaments were decided for the most part, with the European section being decided in Gand (Belgium) in April, the Asian section at the Asian Championships in the Philippines, the African section at the African championships in Tunesia in April, and the American section to be determined, either in Bolivia or Mexico, or shared among them both. Our Confederation President, Mr. Anνbal Illueca Herrera will shortly be communicating to us the final decision.
For the two team weapons that will not be fenced at the Olympics, that is women's foil and sabre, their World Championships will be held on the 12-13-14 June 2004 in New York.
The last regular business conducted by the Congress was to ratify the Refereeing Commission's recommendations for the awarding of 'A' categories to referees following exams and the standard season of monitoring. Unfortunately, no Canadian referee was awarded an 'A' classification this season.
Finally, the Congress was called upon to vote on a number of the recommendations put forward by the Special Ad Hoc Commission responsible for reviewing changes that would be made to foil and sabre. A great many of these changes have been tabled, but a number will be introduced next season and tested over the whole of that season on the Junior World Cup Circuit (starting in October 2004). The following changes will be put in place and monitored at foil:
referees will no longer give a card for "turning the shoulders" (while it remains an infraction, it will be considered "covering target" and sanctioned accordingly);
the blocking time for the lights on the signaling apparatus will be modified and set at 300 milliseconds, while the duration of contact before the break in contact for the point (or impact time) is increased to 15 milliseconds;
over and above the previous modifications, the curvature of the foil blade may not exceed 1 cm and the point will be modified to sustain the 750 gram weight;
It is hoped that these measures will help reduce the number of times that double lights come on, therefore aiding the referee, and will limit the ability of flick hits to register.
On the other hand, the white lights will be maintained, increasing the target area by electrifying the bib will not happen, and the fleche will not disappear.
At sabre, only one modification will be introduced: the blocking time for the lights on the scoring apparatus will be set at 120 milliseconds.
These then were the major decisions made at this year's FIE Congress, with the bulk of other changes and modifications impacting mostly administrative statutes and covering, at length, important considerations that will apply to doping control and a complaint and dispute resolution process.
M.-F. Dufour
President
CFF/FCE
Last edited by pkt; 01-14-2004 at 11:06 PM.
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Armorer
Array First it is interesting to note that the new Foil tip was not mentioned here, nore in Escrime, but had been in the 'Unofficial' report.
I also noticed about the designs on masks. Start sending pictures to the FIE to get them approved.
They also added another job for the Armorers, checking hearing aids. Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules. -
Senior Member
Array hearing aids Don't laugh, it happened in the Vet World Champs...The fencers did not move after "Allez!" Then the ref realsied that both fencers did not turn on their hearing aids...
PK -
Armorer
Array OOPS! I should have said, checking if they are REALLY hearing aids. Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules. -
Senior Member
Array "...at all three weapons, the fencers' equipment is checked to make sure they are not wearing any hearing devices or any other apparatus that would allow them to receive instructions from someone outside the piste during the bout."
The phraseology sounds like NO hearing device.
I guess in the Vets they's have to watch the hand signals...or the side-judges have to assist the ref to give the hand signals so the fencers can see the "Allez" and the "Halt!"
With the use of wireless sabre, they cannot use the "cone of silence" device that anti-terrosrist forces use. Two recent cases of application were in Pakistan in which the President's motorcade escaped from two assasination attempts. This technology was also used in a recent episode of "MI5" on A&E.
PK
Last edited by pkt; 01-14-2004 at 11:14 PM.
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Senior Member
Array I also found it strange that the increased travel time in the tip wasn't mentioned at all. . . Maybe it isn't being considered (crosses fingers. . .) Homestarrunner forever!~!
http://www.homestarrunner.com/20x6vs1936.html
http://www.homestarrunner.com/cheatvideo.html -
Senior Member
Array I think the hearing aid issue refers to the little mini radio receivers like pop stars and football quarterbacks use--the intention is to prevent a coach from sitting in the stands and whispering instructions via radio to his fencer.
Although I don't quite understand why this rule, since coaching is now at least tacitly permitted during bouts. I suppose there is some sort of fairness issue involved: if a coach is shouting instructions to one fencer from the sidelines, the other fencer can hear them too...
Does anyone other than me think that the 120 millisecond blocking time in sabre could really screw up the game? My concern is that it will create too much of a bias in favor of the remise over the riposte.
Cheers, MR Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point. -
Senior Member
Array Yes, when I heard about the new blocking time in sabre I expected it would change the game. The remise of the attack could block out the riposte, but also counter-attacks will block out the attack if it's slow. My mental image was "jab-jab-jab." Oh, yeah, and the slap across the bell-guard might come back--though I forget what the difference between the new block-out and the time-out after contact with the blade is. "Arm yourself, Watson, there is an evil hand afoot ahead." -- Dennis Pierce, 2010 Bulwer-Lytton contest, detective fiction category runner-up. -
Senior Member
Array Ummm.... I wonder if this is what they where talking. http://www.zivkovic.com/item.jsp?web_id=624
Rolls. -
Senior Member
Array What are the lockout times set at now? -
Senior Member
Array too short!! Homestarrunner forever!~!
http://www.homestarrunner.com/20x6vs1936.html
http://www.homestarrunner.com/cheatvideo.html -
Senior Member
Array Originally posted by labouche What are the lockout times set at now? 350 milliseconds for sabre. Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point. -
Senior Member
Array Rolls,
I'm sure there are smaller units.
Try your local purveyro of stuff used for "spying"...something like this: http://www.thespystore.com/
[Sorry, I don't have time to poke around in this site, but I'll let you have a go at it.]
PK -
Senior Member
Array Yea, I'm sure. I just thought it was funny that we were talking about them banning this, and then on this fencing supplier's site there was the specific item that was banned. I'm assuming they were intending this to be used during practice.
Rolls.
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