Teaching epee?

[MyraTrue]

Well, I'm back long enough to beg for a few ideas off the forum.

My situation is that I've gotten back to University, and have discovered that I'm now to be team captain for womens epee, being the "most experienced" fencer. In blunt honesty, I've only fenced epee for about a year and a half, and I'm not sure what to do. I've got two women, one with a little bit of epee (about a month, maybe?) and the other who is a foil convert.

And I've NO idea what to do with them, or where to start. I don't feel like I've got the experience for this. My introduction to epee was a friend showing me a bit of this and that for two days before he graduated, and I was pretty much self taught for a long time after that. And I know there have been some negative effects of my learning that way.

I guess I'm looking for suggestions- I'm not a coach. I wont pretend to be, I know I'm not. I don't want to overload these girls with too much, or take too long to teach something basic, or so on. In short... er... help?

-Myra

[kalivor]

The Canadian Fencing Federation has pdf versions of their old coaching manuals available. The epee section of level two probably has the kind of drills you're looking for.

For the foil fencer, how long has she been fencing? Does your team have a coach?

[jBirch]

MyraTrue,

Check out this:

http://www.fencing.ca/coaching_manuals/manuals.htm

Start at level 1 then carry on. For how to structure the lesson get Fencing and the Master and read it. A couple of times. With epee in particular, you want to work on arm hits with different angulation, beats, opposition and the 4 basic parries (in both linear, semi-circular and opposition forms). That should give you enough to work with. Tactically, find their weaknesses, exploit them then talk about how to close them up and exploit similar weaknesses in their opponents.

Hope this helps.

[MyraTrue]

ah, excellent! Thank you. As to the foilist, I believe she's coming out of her first semester of foil (she's taken the foil class). The other fencer with a little epee, I suspect, hasn't been around much longer.

We do not have a coach here, much as I wish we did. We've had trouble finding one, and the last one we had finished his grad school and has moved on. So its back to being self-taught within the club. Though we've done fairly well so far doing just that.

[demon_fencer]

MyraTrue -
For what its worth, have your epeeists do insane amounts of conditioning. When Eduardo Sepulveda (Spain, Gold medal - Div 1 NAC, Palm Springs, 5th ??? Senior World Championships 2003)was training at my club he had the epee team doing sit-ups, push-ups, running, etc for about an hour before they would even pick up their epees. It'll make holding those freaking heavy weapons much easier at the end of a long day of fencing.

[pammie003]

Myra,

I'm in a similar situation this year. I'm the WE captain of my team, and am also heading up a rookie ME team. I'd only been fencing for about 1 1/2 years as well at the beginning of this year. We have a coach, but, well, he's a sabre guy.

One piece of advice: never underestimate the value of the basics. Parry riposte drills and beat attack drills are two of our favourites. They may take a long time to perfect, but are suprisingly effective. The complex stuff can come later.

Good luck

[MyraTrue]

It came out last night that none of the WE team (myself included) are assertive in this situation at all. So unless we are all very careful, it disolves into "so, what would you like to work on?" "Uh.... whatever YOU'D like to work on." "hmmm... uh... well?"

Oy... this is some crazyness!

[FoilyGeezer]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
It came out last night that none of the WE team (myself included) are assertive in this situation at all. So unless we are all very careful, it disolves into "so, what would you like to work on?" "Uh.... whatever YOU'D like to work on." "hmmm... uh... well?"

Oy... this is some crazyness!

Seriously, that won't work too well. You need a set practice schedule, and you need a core set of skill drills that will at least give you a baseline on each of the fencers. Then start working on their weaknesses. Fix the easy stuff first. Don't work on too many things at once. Don't abandon your core drills when you start to work on other stuff. They're always a good barometer for how everything else is going.

[SJCFU#2]

I concur with Pammie003 - never underestimate the importance of basics. If noone knows what to do, then try having everyone pair off, with one person presenting target and the other working on simple direct attacks. From there, move up to beat attacks or attack-parry- riposte.

If no-one wants to attack outside of a scripted drill, then give them a scenario - regular time has expired with the score tied. Their opponent has priority. Now they have one minute to score a single touch or they loose the bout.

[MyraTrue]

I've been trying some random things- and basics, I agree with that. I've been trying to work with both of the women. I always made a great pin cussion- "when I open my arm, attack into the opening line". But still no good bruises. I'm lucky enough that we've got windows that make good mirrors, so we can do footwork and lunges with epees, and it allows you to see if your are not holding your guard correctly.

Ball drills with a partner are actually fun, and you can nicely correct someone's guard, but still make a game out of it.

We DO have set practices, its just difficult to figure out exactly what to do with them. I admit, I'm still a fan of some free play. It allows me to find things to teach them that they need, that show up in their fencing. Ie- one can be destroyed with a parry two, another needs distance...

I need EVERYTHING worked on, but I'm doing me best.

[FoilyGeezer]

How long are your practices?

Let's assume you're practice time is and hour and a half.

Figure something like this:
15 minute warm up and stretches.
20-30 minutes basic drills
10-15 minutes specific targeted skills
Rest of the time - Bouts.

I tend to work on bouts as specific skills too. (i.e. I'm only going to score on parry ripostes to the front shoulder). You can make it fun by putting a bunch of attacks on slips of paper and put them in a hat. Everyone draws one and that's what they have to do. You get wonderfully efficient at skills when they're the only thing you're allowed to do.

Hope this helps or at least gives you some ideas

[dreadfoily]

Talk with VEECO about Epee and he'll give you ideas. My only experience with epee is this: I fenced it like a foilist for a long time until I got the feel for the weapon, it weighs a little more and you have to learn how to look at the bell with your side vision when you start, then I leaned that the footwork was completly different, it's less static, more of a bounce, after you get that a bit, keep working on it and then I prayed for a real coach to teach me the rest.

[Duelist]

Hey Demon_Fencer,

What other conditioning routines did Eduardo Sepulveda have you perform?

[gregoryvaughn]

I am in a similar situation +. I have just returned to fencing after about a 26 year break. My last weapon was epee at St. John's U., where I was a foil convert. I am not a coach but I'm trying. I got matrerial from one of the video vendors and some drills from my local fencing org. Combined with my recollection of training in college I am proceeding. I would also suggest getting all of the tournament videos you can get and study same for technique plus. There is some Russian team trainig regimens online. mastering fundamentals of the weapon is always a good place to start.

[Duelist]

Where online are these Russian training instructions?

[npkeith]

My coach is drilling counter-sixte riposte to death, because apparently, very few people out here (San Bernardino Division) A) are using it and B) know how to defend against it (the book says the "correct" response to counter-sixte is Prime)

Get your team-members to the point where a counter-sixte is instinctual (at the right moment of course) and then work on the Prime low riposte to counter it.

His words - "It all ends with counter-sixte riposte"

good luck

[smurfette]

I was in a similar situation in college: I was a woman new to fencing, without a coach, frequently running practices, etc. I survived (though I have a coach now, thank goodness).

A couple more ideas, in addition to the great suggestion of extra conditioning and cross training: footwork, footwork, footwork. Make sure you really have an idea of what a good stance and good footwork look like: feet decently far apart, weight centered, engaging both front and back legs, relaxed shoulders. Movement should be smooth and controlled both advancing and retreating -- no "skittering," as my coach likes to call it. When I left college, I was pretty good, but I had some real technical problems that made me prone to overuse injuries: my stance was hunched, with most of my weight on my front leg, and I skittered on the retreat. So those are good things to pay attention to. Also, if you can get a coach (possibly in South Bend, or the Chicago area?) to come and give a workshop, or get your girls to go spend a weekend somewhere, that will make all the difference in the world. You won't be shooting in the dark so much. And competing is an equally great opportunity for learning. Those are some simple, concrete suggestions.

[tiger fencer]

Originally posted by smurfette
Also, if you can get a coach (possibly in South Bend, or the Chicago area?) to come and give a workshop, or get your girls to go spend a weekend somewhere, that will make all the difference in the world.

Yeah, what Smurfette said. Getting lessons from a real coach once in a while will be a big boon to your fencers, give them(as well as you) something to look forward to, and it'll give you ideas of how to schedule practice time, and what to practice. Ask the real coach what you, as your teamates coach, should coach them on. Maybe even have them draft a long term training schedule. Develop a relationship with a good coach that's sympathetic to your cause, they can be a great ressource, explain to them what you're looking for(workshop etc.) during your meetings/semainars. And it can get you "in the loop" locally. Go there, or get them to come to you, once or twice a semester, even if its a ways away, treat it like a tournament. It may cost your fencers money, but it'll keep them enthused and keep their skills progressing. It'll give them tons to work on for weeks to come.

Going to tournaments is a good way to learn what you need to work on. Talk to other clubs while you're there, let people know you exist! Don't be a "I think they have club" club. Make your road trips fun, it'll help grow your club.

[MyraTrue]

thank you, all! *huge sigh of relief* Its all excellent advice.

Its working- the basics are exactly what we all needed, and I can (I hope) at least give those some justice! (Ie- the foilist who was having a hard time with landing the point, and certainly not on the arm is now hitting my arm 9 out of 10 times with the reposte, even when I'm not really opening up, and am backpeddling! WOO!)

We are tournamenting- they're my team! Without them, there is no womens epee, so Friday we bundle many many fencers into vans and drive to the first tournament of the season. I've been making left handed epees and scrounging up spare uniform, but this should be a blast.