Should we do away with Quotes?

[Socrates]

Question: Does the Quote facility encourage aggressive discussion?

Proposal: Should we do away with Quotes?

The Quoting Facility is like taking the blade and hitting the target hard- and hard because we have enhanced precision and control of the object (quote) of our attack. I have not been personally attached, but have observed the personal attack of others. People are not objects of attack, (in real life who ever gets out a pen and starts quoting the speaker?) The attacking element seems to be enhanced with the quoting.
A certain level vagueness is always a kinder and more spontaneous.


Reasons for doing away with Quotes:

1. Stifles spontaneous, playful discussion
2. Promotes aggressive, more pointedly personal attacks (metaphorically the body, fencing target)
3. We are not presenting a thesis and quoting specialists to pass a subject


So why be so serious?

[Inquartata]

You do realize that one can still quote by using cut-and-paste with either HTML or just plain old quotation marks? Eliminating a function won't stop anyone.

But then, I really don't see the "problem" with the practice, which apparently looms so large for you. Maybe we should just leave well enough alone?

[Socrates]

The quoting function encourages quoting- it give you the idea in the first place.

I suppose I'm getting at more spontaneous, not dead, discussion.

[Louweasel]

I think it's a good function. If the discussion gets convoluted it's useful to use rather than having to say "with reference to what so-and-so was saying about this, this, this and this...". Things could get very confusing without it.

Plus in Water Cooler topics it adds to quickfire humour I think!

[veeco]

Originally posted by Socrates
Reasons for doing away with Quotes:

1. Stifles spontaneous, playful discussion

You are totally right

[J.Harris]

I still don't know how to quote...

But no, I think it's useful, on threads where there are several debates going on at the same time it's useful to be able to make it clear who you're point's aimed at.

[damianip]

Originally posted by Socrates
Question: Does the Quote facility encourage aggressive discussion?

Proposal: Should we do away with Quotes?

The Quoting Facility is like taking the blade and hitting the target hard- and hard because we have enhanced precision and control of the object (quote) of our attack. I have not been personally attached, but have observed the personal attack of others. People are not objects of attack, (in real life who ever gets out a pen and starts quoting the speaker?) The attacking element seems to be enhanced with the quoting.
A certain level vagueness is always a kinder and more spontaneous.


Reasons for doing away with Quotes:

1. Stifles spontaneous, playful discussion
2. Promotes aggressive, more pointedly personal attacks (metaphorically the body, fencing target)
3. We are not presenting a thesis and quoting specialists to pass a subject


So why be so serious?

In a diverging discussion thread, quoting is absolutely essential to express oneself clearly and let the rest of the participants know to which message you are responding.

Like now.

Right?



Paolo

[Tireur]

The quoting function encourages quoting

I have to agree with this one................

[edew]

Originally posted by veeco
You are totally right

Same here. I agree.

[edew]

Originally posted by J.Harris
I still don't know how to quote...

But no, I think it's useful, on threads where there are several debates going on at the same time it's useful to be able to make it clear who you're point's aimed at.

At the lower right corner of each post, there is an "edit" button and a "quote" button. Click on the quote button to quote it. Click on the edit button to edit the original post (only if you were the author of that post, of course).

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by Socrates
Question: Does the Quote facility encourage aggressive discussion?

Of course not! That is the stupidest thing I ever heard!

Originally posted by Socrates

Proposal: Should we do away with Quotes?

No

Originally posted by Socrates


The Quoting Facility is like taking the blade and hitting the target hard- and hard because we have enhanced precision and control of the object (quote) of our attack. I have not been personally attached, but have observed the personal attack of others. People are not objects of attack, (in real life who ever gets out a pen and starts quoting the speaker?) The attacking element seems to be enhanced with the quoting.
A certain level vagueness is always a kinder and more spontaneous.

In real life you don't HAVE to quote what the speaker said, you have the immediacy of a face to face conversation.

Originally posted by Socrates


Reasons for doing away with Quotes:

1. Stifles spontaneous, playful discussion
2. Promotes aggressive, more pointedly personal attacks (metaphorically the body, fencing target)
3. We are not presenting a thesis and quoting specialists to pass a subject

Reasons for keeping the quote function:
1. Stifles spontaneous, playfull discussion.
2. Promotes better understanding. These threads DO tend to wander a bit, the quote function allows the user to make it very clear just what he/she is responding to. Like right now for example.
3. Allows responses to be brief, after all, we are not writing a thesis here.

[duel mom]

Do the quotes have to be in boldened typeface? Quoting does make the threads longer, more mouse work.

[DHCJr]

Originally posted by J.Harris
I still don't know how to quote...

But no, I think it's useful, on threads where there are several debates going on at the same time it's useful to be able to make it clear who you're point's aimed at.

This is a clear use of the quote being necessary. I agree with J. Harris. The trouble is, if I just said I agree with J. Harris, you would have to search for what J. Harris said. If I disagree, the same thing.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally posted by Socrates
Question: Does the Quote facility encourage aggressive discussion?

No. It encourages people to quote statements with which they wish to agree, disagree, ridicule, discuss further, call attention to, remind other readers of what was said earlier, or pinpoint discussion for a narrower focus.

Originally posted by Socrates
Proposal: Should we do away with Quotes?

Observe the rest of the post, and see if you can infer my position. Feel free to quote anything with which you wish to agree, disagree, ridicule, discuss further, call attention to, remind other readers of what was said earlier, or pinpoint discussion for a narrower focus.

Originally posted by Socrates
The Quoting Facility is like taking the blade and hitting the target hard- and hard because we have enhanced precision and control of the object (quote) of our attack.

In our salle, enhanced precision and control of the blade results in lighter hits. How do you train?

Originally posted by Socrates
I have not been personally attached,

Personal detachment disorder is not a subject to be taken lightly. See, here is a perfect example of why quotes are valuable. Someone might not have understood what you meant, and gotten confused. Now, it's obvious to all that you probably meant attacked. Of course, if you've been reading this board, mentioning that you haven't been attacked is akin to dressing in fish livers and jumping into the ocean while proclaiming: "I haven't been personally bitten." You've just increased the likelihood by several factors.

Originally posted by Socrates
but have observed the personal attack of others.

And yet you still posted this challenge to a favorite function of those who like to debate. Curious.

Originally posted by Socrates
People are not objects of attack, (in real life who ever gets out a pen and starts quoting the speaker?) The attacking element seems to be enhanced with the quoting.

I suspect you didn't spend much time with the debate class in school. What people say is always grist for rebuttal.

Originally posted by Socrates
A certain level vagueness is always a kinder and more spontaneous.

Always a kinder and more spontaneous what? Do a post search for our favorite multi-personality poster--Mango, Dreadfoil, Dreadfoily, 135711, the Claw, etc. You'll definately find a certain level of vagueness there. Many of the rest of us prefer to be more specific. The quote function helps keep responses precise.

Originally posted by Socrates
Reasons for doing away with Quotes:
1. Stifles spontaneous, playful discussion

Aww...c'mon. I was just messing with you! I saw your post, and responded on a whim. Feel free to quote me! We'll have fun! Hey, wanna go get a burger?

Originally posted by Socrates
2. Promotes aggressive, more pointedly personal attacks (metaphorically the body, fencing target)

I have quoted you massively, yet made no personal attacks, just wry observations. If one of our posters wishes to get in your face, quotes won't make it any better or worse.

Originally posted by Socrates
3. We are not presenting a thesis and quoting specialists to pass a subject

No, we're presenting ideas, and often do quote both each other and "specialists" for more pertinent observations.

Originally posted by Socrates
So why be so serious?

I'm seldom serious, whether I'm being quotatious or not!

[quote]Originally posted by Duel Mom
Do the quotes have to be in boldened typeface [quote]

No. See how valuable the quote was in reminding someone of an earlier question?

[J.Harris]

Originally posted by edew
At the lower right corner of each post, there is an "edit" button and a "quote" button. Click on the quote button to quote it. Click on the edit button to edit the original post (only if you were the author of that post, of course).

Like this?

[FlamingDeth]

In addition to what everybody else said, there's also a feasability issue here. For all we know, there may be no way to get rid of the quote function without actually hacking the vBullitin code, which would potentially be quite a bit of work.

[Socrates]

I agree, quoting is good for being more precise, for raising exactly what you aim to dispute (or adhere to) aids memory etc..

Another possibility: quoting narrows the focus to a one-on-one fencing bout (when in opposition) which discourages open discussion with other members, just joined enties.


Just a bit of gratuitous history: the greeks were adverse to writing and prefered oral speech for the same reason - that writing is the lesser and weaker cousin (writing becomes a cure for the gross limitations of human memory and mind)

[westcoastsabre]

and rightly so...

[edew]

And until the lawyers got into the game...

[Socrates]

To Capt. Slo-mo

As you have presented your idea at length and with demostrative quotations I respond to your pro-quoting stance.

I agree with you to a certain extent; objectively the quoting function does achieve all that you say.

However in terms of unobjective things such as:

1. Fostering a positive and fun (not necessarily superficial) atmosphere
2 Creating good relationships with fellow members, just joined:

many of the discussions I have found stiffling and narrowly focused potentially because of the overuse, in my opinion abuse of quoting.

To quote is the wish to execute the discussion with the utmost precision, and the wish to execute the discussion with utmost precision ), inevitably invites an anti-personal and rational approach to human interaction. (Good if writing a class paper or defending a real cause to real authorities)

Human interaction should be more light-hearted and fun in my opinion.

Quote in moderation would be the happy medium.