Footwork Problems

[LightningSword]

I'm rather new to the sprot of fencing; in fact, i've only been at it for a month now. I know I need to improve my footwork, especially my lunges. Both my coaches and my captains have pointed out that my front foot has a tendency to point in as I'm lunging. I seem to be able to get it back into a proper on guard stance, but I think it may be throwing my balance off when I lunge. Anyone have any suggestions as to how I might fix that?

[swordsen]

Come on guard on aline on the floor. (edge of a strip, piece of tape, whatever) then do yor footwork up and down the line. Include your lunges and make sure you stay on the line. And keep practicing. You can never do too much footwork practice.

[pkt]

Make sure that your front foot and your front knee are line up with where you want them to go.

Find out the "penny-under-the-ball-of-the-front-foot" exercise to get your front foot to do the correct action in a lunge.

The penny should go flying towards your opponent.

enjoy yourself, learn to relax,
PK

[benjt]

I had the same problem for a long time when I started, the exercise swordsen suggests is about the most useful. In the onguard stance hold the foil with the point touching the floor then act out a lunge but as you do it kick the blade.
This will help with the positioning of your front foot and will give you a longer reach. Do this exercise on a stright line as swordsen suggests for added effect.

[J.Harris]

I had this problem to, one of the coaches just used to spend 5,10 minutes a week with me doing footwork and lunges and pointing out everytime my foot pointed inwards and I shook the habbit pretty quickly...

[prototoast]

Check your hips as well. If your hips are pointing in the wrong direction, your foot will often follow.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

LSword: If your foot is turning in, you're putting a lot of stress on your knee when lunging and advancing/retreating with your knees properly bent.

If you have access to a gym with stripes, use one of the stripes as mentioned by Swordsen. Keep your front foot centered as you advance and retreat. At first, do it slooooowly! Advance, pause, bring up the back foot. Repeat, repeat, repeat. One advance, one retreat. Feel your center balance between your feet, watch the alignment of your foot.

You can't do this too much. Just work on form and alignment at a very slow speed to start. You'll have plenty of time to work on frantic, fast advances and retreats later.

[jBirch]

LSword,

Try kicking your front foot out like you're kicking a soccer ball(or imagine kicking someone in the groin with the point of your toe). Then make the lunge as big as you possibly can. Finally, hold still at the end of your huge lunge.

You'll find that the kicking motion will make your foot stay straighter. You'll find that stretching forward will make you reach with the front foot which will tend to point it. You'll find that when you try to hold it, you'll be better able to keep your balance if your front foot is straight.

What usually is the culprit for crabbing your toe is a tendency to only push from your back foot and not reach with your front foot as well.

A lunge has 4 parts:

1) Stretch with the point.
2) Kick with the front foot.
3) PUSH with the back foot.
4) Throw the back arm towards your back foot.

Hope this helps.

[TheMagician]

To slightly hijack this thread, I have been fencing (predominantly foil with some epee) for about 10 years, although its only been in the last 6 months or so that I have started taking it a bit more seriously and started working with weights and cardio machines at the gym etc.

My trainer at the gym suggested I should replace one of my machine cardio sessions with an intensive footwork session.

has anyone used footwork as a cardio workout and have a good routine to follow? Does anyone think this is a good/bad idea and have any thoughts about it?

Cheers guys

[laughingduelist]

has anyone used footwork as a cardio workout and have a good routine to follow? Does anyone think this is a good/bad idea and have any thoughts about it?

Footwork is not a great cardio workout. Like most of fencing it is mainly an anaerobic exercise, using fast twitch muscles. I would advise running a mile or two a day, or even better, swimming.

[LightningSword]

Thanks so much for the tips everyone! I'll keep them in mind during practice over the next few days, and see if it makes any difference on Saturday at my meet. Two days may not be long enough to fix the problem, but every bit counts, right? Wish me luck!

Magician: If your looking for a good cardio workout, try going to biking for a bit. Or, if it's as cold by you as it is by us right now, see if your gym has a stationary bike you can use.

[edew]

The way I try to explain the lunge is through visualizing this scenario:

Imagine you're at the edge of an abyss. There's the ledge on the other side and a dangling rope or vine. You want to bring that vine back over to your side. You want to span the abyss, which is just narrow enough for you to get one foot on each edge of the abyss.

So, in order to straddle the abyss and grab the rope, you need to extend your arm, and reach out with your leg fully extended. If you don't, you're going to fall into the abyss.

[pkt]

Originally posted by jBirch
LSword,

Try kicking your front foot out like you're kicking a soccer ball(or imagine kicking someone in the groin with the point of your toe). Then make the lunge as big as you possibly can. Finally, hold still at the end of your huge lunge.

...

This is what I meant by the "penny under teh ball of the front foot" exercise.

I forgot to mention:
perhaps you should try moving your back foot slightly more outward and make a smaller than 90-degree position with your front foot. I know, I know, this is blasphemous in fencing, but this is what they use in kendo...

Just keep an open mind and try it.

Another thing you have to remember is to bend your back leg at the hip. If you don't do this, your torso will fall fwd.

PK

[nahouw]

Originally posted by LightningSword
I'm rather new to the sprot of fencing; in fact, i've only been at it for a month now. I know I need to improve my footwork, especially my lunges. Both my coaches and my captains have pointed out that my front foot has a tendency to point in as I'm lunging. I seem to be able to get it back into a proper on guard stance, but I think it may be throwing my balance off when I lunge. Anyone have any suggestions as to how I might fix that?

This is indicative of bad form and weak hamstrings. In order to correct this, try any (or all) of the following:

1) bend your knees more while advancing and retreating - biomechanically, this will force your body to be correct
2) don't overreach during a lunge -- developing stronger abdominals will help counter-balance this tendency (strong abdominals prevent pelvic tilt, which is what alters balance, which a turned foot is indicative of)
3) strengthen your hamstrings -- more running is good -- at least 1-2 miles a day.
4) make sure you always extend first -- that will also force the body to a correct position; let the arm extend and touch, and then just let the foot follow.
5) posture -- don't crouch the body (always keep the shoulders back), rather, use the knees; make sure you always keep correct posture by keeping your butt under you, rather than sticking out (this goes back to the bend your knees more advice, and the hamstring advice)

[jBirch]

nahouw,

2) don't overreach during a lunge -- developing stronger abdominals will help counter-balance this tendency (strong abdominals prevent pelvic tilt, which is what alters balance, which a turned foot is indicative of)

Just wondering: by overreach do you mean with the foot or with the hand? If it's with the foot then, empirically, I've found just the opposite. Note, this is not that a turned toe is not indicative of bad balance but rather that practicing an over extended lunge corrects the pointed toe by necessitating better balance and posture.

Take it easy.

[veeco]

Originally posted by nahouw

2) don't overreach during a lunge -- developing stronger abdominals will help counter-balance this tendency (strong abdominals prevent pelvic tilt, which is what alters balance, which a turned foot is indicative of)

Developing strong dorsal muscles is equally important to developing the abs in order to keep correct posture, IMO.

[pkt]

Originally posted by veeco
Developing strong dorsal muscles is equally important to developing the abs in order to keep correct posture, IMO.

Just don't go sprouting dorsal fins...

==)----------

jBirch

How does one overreach with the hand? Pls show me: I'd like to learn to do that so I can save my old knees.

==)----------

LightningSword

Do you know what nahouw is talking about by over-reaching with one's lunge?

PK

[jBirch]

PKT,

One leans forward from the hips.

[pkt]

It ain't necessary so.

Try doing a counter-parry and riposte when you're looking at the piste rather than the opponent.

Look at the World Champ competitors, their torsos are as close to upright as possible at most times even after a lunge. The only exception may be at the end of a fleche. [The Pozdniakov v Pillet foto in the banner at the top of the page is a good illustration. They're still not finished with the lunge.]

If you see a fencer sticking his butt out then he has to make the break between his back leg and hip and sit lower. Otherwise he cannot move properly.

PK

[LightningSword]

LightningSword

Do you know what nahouw is talking about by over-reaching with one's lunge?

I think so. Means to not place the front foot too far out when your lunging.




Right?