The adidas fencing shoes SUCK

[Army Fencer]

Originally posted by KShan5[PrFC]
But ya know when fencing moves into rings we won't need to asyms, we would need combat boots like all the other WWE stars. I hear Soldier and Army Fencer have tried em on, tell us how they work with fencing, maybe I'll make the switch.

Wha-what? Oh, my combat boots. You just have to break 'em in. Of course, that can take awhile.

I wasn't going to participate in this one because it started off so negative. Epeeinur, you've really got to work on presenting a better argument. If you start off in a whining fit of rage, nobody will take you seriously. If you had said from the beginning that you didn't like them because they give give you the support you want, that would have come off a lot better.

Do you have a brand you perfer?

I got my first pair of fencing shoes about four years ago (after I got my combat boots ). I wasn't too fond of Blue Gauntlet before, and was even less impressed afterwards. Then I got a pair of Adidas--D'artagnan. I still have that pair and it works fine for me. It's starting to wear, though, because I've training hard lately.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by retardedspleen

Not only do they take intrest, they make KICKASS fencing equipment in the processe!


ALL of the top foil and sabre fencers out there wear adidas. you know why? cause they're the best. simple as that. This is one of the few shoe producers that have a shoe that has good look, good feel and good quality.

Now that's not quite true. Ralf Bissdorf wears tennis shoes. Kim (KOR) used to wear prieur knock off fencing shoes. He's changed several times, but I haven't seen him wearing the assyms.

Golubitsky was last seen wearing Viktoria, but that probably had a lot to do with sponsorship.

As for Sabre, I'm not so sure what the breakdown is like.

For the guy who mentioned the reasons why he liked the shoe, look at any performance tennis or volleyball shoe. The new styles have new compounds that wrap around the toe and side foot and hold up far better than hardened leather. Light weight? Many shoes out there are as light or lighter (especially the volley and indoor soccer shoes) than the assyms, with better cushioning and support. Why? Because other sports generate money, and those sports benefit from new technology applied to the shoes. After all, notice how the old style Addidas shoe was basically unchanged for 20 years...

Why not? Because that cant on the back shoe can really mess up your back leg. It's can strain your achilles tendon, put extra pressure on the inside of your back knee, and it's not even suitable for walking.

The ankle and tendon injuries happen slowly and over time, and not for everyone, and most people seem happy with them.

I've had a number of injuries, and find that volleyball or tennis shoes work better than any fencing specific shoe i've tried. Cheaper, more supportive, more durable, and more cushion.

At an epee a year or 2 ago, Paul Soter (US Men's epee coach) and the USOC strength coach both encouraged fencers to not wear fencing specific shoes due to lack of support and cushion, especially on the concrete floors of NAC's.

Then again, maybe they get kickbacks from Asics.

[pkt]

epeeinur,

You've got the courage to call out "The emperor is not wearing any clothers." But in your way of calling it out, you diminished your credibility.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
~ Hubert H. Humhprey

Look at the product review here:
http://www.fencing101.com/reviews/ce...ils&itemid=131
There are other shoes that have been reviewed.

No shoes can make you a better fencer. Just like no epee can make you a better epeeist. They are your tools. It's you who determines if you're a good fencer or not.

I've stated in my review of the Adidas "Equipment" that they are built specifically for fencing and for fencing on metallic pistes only. Try fencing with them on wood gym floor, esp. dusty gym floors, then you'll find they are useless: no traction. But on metallic pistes they are great. and yet they are still inadequate on the heel department. But that's the same for any fencing shoes...

Try wearing a pair of B-ball shoes for playing badminton or go running, they are not optimised for these uses. If you wish to have your shoes multi-task for you then get yourself some cross-trainers. Of course you can wear a pair of swim fins for fencing. That's your right and there's no rule to say that you can't. But see how much better you'll do.

People are correct to observe that adidas spent a lot on money to research which is the best format of shoes for fencing. They went from the left-handed/righ-handed shoes to the common shoes. The only diff in the 70s was that the synthetic leather protecting the inside of the rear foot as well as the edge of the rear shoe is shaved off a bit more.

Then adidas went back to the asym shoes for this latest top model. I appreciate their research and their support for fencing. I don't agree with their choice of compound for the soles, yet I agree with them since their target market is those fencers who fence on metal pistes a lot.

In the long run, more people will find the "Equipment" save them money, save their feet, and help give them traction of the metallic pistes than any other shoes. Just look at the extra potection for your instep on your rear foot in the Equipment. None of the other fencing shoes give you that. The syn leather lasts longer than most of the other syn leather used in other shoes including the d'Artagnan.

Go ahead, you're free to wear whatever shoes you wish to, but many people will disagree with your assesment of the "Equipment". You are of course entitled to your opinion just as you are entitled to be wrong. It's a free forum.

PK

[achilleus]

Originally posted by pkt
In the long run, more people will find the "Equipment" save them money, save their feet, and help give them traction of the metallic pistes than any other shoes. Just look at the extra potection for your instep on your rear foot in the Equipment. None of the other fencing shoes give you that. The syn leather lasts longer than most of the other syn leather used in other shoes including the d'Artagnan.

They money comment is really amusing, since I know someone who spoke with the Adidas designers who worked on the fencing shoe. Their research was limited to 4 french foil and sabre fencers, while more research than any other shoe, hardly extensive. Also, never mind that the russians, and italians have better footwork.

Also, the shoe was designed to wear out in roughly 9 months. The cushioning, support, and upper all made for that length of time. Why? So Adidas can make more money. That's not unusual almost all shoes are made with a 6-9 month lifespan. The fencing shoes are no exception.

Of course, I doubt Adidas counts on people who just don't care about the support or cushioning and wear the same pair of shoes for years. Adidas should have thought of that, after all if most fencers cared about cushion and support, they never would have sold the older versions of the fencing shoe.

[pkt]

Originally posted by achilleus
They money comment is really amusing, since I know someone who spoke with the Adidas designers who worked on the fencing shoe. Their research was limited to 4 french foil and sabre fencers, while more research than any other shoe, hardly extensive. Also, never mind that the russians, and italians have better footwork.

Ach,
you've weakened your own argument.
Difficult to see the italians supporting adidas when they have viktoria. As for the Russina, I guess them not being in the EU might have something to do with it. Or that there are other factors like Adidas having factories in France and not in Russia...

Originally posted by achilleus
Also, the shoe was designed to wear out in roughly 9 months. The cushioning, support, and upper all made for that length of time. Why? So Adidas can make more money. That's not unusual almost all shoes are made with a 6-9 month lifespan. The fencing shoes are no exception.

Of course, I doubt Adidas counts on people who just don't care about the support or cushioning and wear the same pair of shoes for years. Adidas should have thought of that, after all if most fencers cared about cushion and support, they never would have sold the older versions of the fencing shoe.

Is that that unusal? have you seen the 1951 movie "The Man in the White Suit"? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044876/ "A man invents a fabric that won't get dirty or wear out, but he seems to have made more enemies than friends in the process..." Is that any different for Adidas to not make shoes that'll last forever?

I find the Adidas Equipment as well as their Resposne Court shoes are great improvements over their previous products. Better box for the feet, more support, etc. Read my review of the Equipment shoes...
http://www.fencing101.com/reviews/ce...ils&itemid=131

PK

[achilleus]

Originally posted by pkt
Ach,
you've weakened your own argument.
Difficult to see the italians supporting adidas when they have viktoria. As for the Russina, I guess them not being in the EU might have something to do with it. Or that there are other factors like Adidas having factories in France and not in Russia...

Weakend my own argument? My comment was stating a fact. The research was not extensive by any means. It was more than any other fencing shoe but not extensive especially when compared with other performance athletic shoes.

You can give numbers of reasons for it, but the fact doesn't change. 4 French fencers. 1 of which was an epee fencer now that I remember. Flessel-Colovic was the sole epee fencer. They also used Touya, Omnes, and Plumenail.

Originally posted by pkt
Is that that unusal? have you seen the 1951 movie "The Man in the White Suit"? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044876/ "A man invents a fabric that won't get dirty or wear out, but he seems to have made more enemies than friends in the process..." Is that any different for Adidas to not make shoes that'll last forever?

Perhaps you didn't read my post fully...

Originally posted by achilleus
That's not unusual almost all shoes are made with a 6-9 month lifespan. The fencing shoes are no exception.

It's not unusual for ANY shoe company to make their shoes expire after that amount of time. Running shoes all have a lifespan of about 50 miles. Most B-ball shoes have a 20 hour lifespan (roughly translates to 3 months at 1 game of ball a week).

Originally posted by pkt
I find the Adidas Equipment as well as their Resposne Court shoes are great improvements over their previous products. Better box for the feet, more support, etc. Read my review of the Equipment shoes...
http://www.fencing101.com/reviews/ce...ils&itemid=131

PK

I find many Adidas products to be good stuff. Their fencing specific shoes however, don't work for me. They never have, and the assyms address most of the problems of the old, but they create a new ones.

Oh well, I'll stick with my volleyball shoes.

[Epeecurean]

I had to get new shoes recently and looked at Adidas' assymetric 'Equipment' shoes. I liked the way the material and feel on my foot, but didn't like the assymetric tilt of the rear foot. It would be nice if one could buy just two plain front-foot shoes (L&R) and skip the whole assymetic angle...

[fence1848]

Originally posted by achilleus
For the guy who mentioned the reasons why he liked the shoe, look at any performance tennis or volleyball shoe. The new styles have new compounds that wrap around the toe and side foot and hold up far better than hardened leather. Light weight? Many shoes out there are as light or lighter (especially the volley and indoor soccer shoes) than the assyms, with better cushioning and support.

Okay, partially my bad on this one. I had posted early on and did not realize then that Epeeinur was referring specifically to the Addidas Asymmetricals. I mean, it's not like that's the only shoe they make. I was referring to the old Addidas black stripes (which are very lightweight). I have heard that about volleyball shoes, as one of my old coaches once said that volleyball shoes are about the closest to fencing shoes and work very well in fencing.

[Fechter1]

Man, the things you miss when you're away a week...

Anyway, at this point I'd like to pipe in quickly.

I use the Adidas Equipment shoes. They work for me. The pair I'm using right now is over a year old, and just now starting to show the first signs of serious wear. That, combined with the fact that I get them straight from Adidas in Germany (much cheaper), means they've been a very god investment for me.

If you don't like them, or they don't work for you, that' fine. You have a right to say so. Just don't attack the people who do wear them and expect anything other that insulted replies.

They were made for fencing, not running. (BTW, running in them will put pressure on the OUTSIDE of your back knee not the inside, just though I'd mention that) I run my warmup laps in running shoes, then switch to my fencing shoes once I start footwork. Why would you do anything else? The cant isn't supposed to help you walk straight, it's supposed to keep you back leg more inline when you push off for advances and lunges.

As everything else (blades, uniform, etc.), the shoes won't by themselves make you a better fencer. They are a tool. And it's up to you to choose the tool that best fits your style, and best helps you improve. The Adidas shoes do that for me.

And saying that epeeists in general have bad footwork, well, I'll chalk that one up to ignorance. I've seen the best in the world fence (in epee, of course), and the footwork they do... It may not be "pretty" in some cases, but it's effective as hell.

[Epeeinur]

achilleus is my man here in this thread

I didnt know to put it, read his reply and i agree on everything he says.

Assymetrical shoes are bad for you, he already told you ppl why.

[Talyn]

Originally posted by Epeeinur
achilleus is my man here in this thread

I didnt know to put it, read his reply and i agree on everything he says.

Assymetrical shoes are bad for you, he already told you ppl why.

Read the reviews for Assymetrical Adidas Fencing shoes... I mean honestly I doubt either of you have actually read it. oiuyt even points out the fact that you will either love or hate them and that seems like the case here. You and Achilleus are clearly in the minority here and not to mention incredibly rude to supporters of the Adidas 'Equipment' Shoes.

Anyway, I don't know how you run/fence but my shoes last far longer than 9 months and it's pretty clear that I'm with a lot of the people here on this one. My last pair of cheap dodgy shoes from china lasted for 2 good years before disintegrating[That took 6 months].

Basically it comes down to the fact that Adidas Assymetrical Shoes work for most of the people out there.

[wpotere]

I recently switched from tennis to the adidas D'Artagnan and have to say that I love them. There is a huge difference in my ability to move smoothly on advance as well as the ability to "feel" the floor. I fence mainly on a gym floor and can tell you that the traction is not that different of a normal tennis shoe. They are light and comfortable and provide sufficient support for me.

Now, as for the R&D comments, just because you "know" someone that spoke to someone does not mean that it is porper information. I have worked with Adidas in the past when it came to TKD (Tae Kwon Do) bag shoes and have to say that they do listen to people in the sport. It is true that the life cycle of a shoe is rather short, but they would not release a shoe if all it did was injure a person while being used. That whole concept is counter productive as you would be fighting off countless lawsuits. Adidas does their home work and has produced a general shoe that can assist most fencers.

That said, it comes down to comfort. What are your preferences and how do you fence? That shoe may not be the best for you but calling it garbage only shows the lack of intellect of what the show was designed for.

As for price, I bought mine in Germany from Uhlmann. SO I only paid about 70 bucks.

[oiuyt]

Originally posted by achilleus

It's not unusual for ANY shoe company to make their shoes expire after that amount of time. Running shoes all have a lifespan of about 50 miles. Most B-ball shoes have a 20 hour lifespan (roughly translates to 3 months at 1 game of ball a week).

Where do you get this figure? I assure you that running shoes can go for considerably more than 50 miles. Try by an order of magnitude. Conventional wisdom for runners (and it clearly does vary by shoe brand, runner, running style and a host of other facotrs) is to expect 3-600 miles out of a pair of shoes. Otherwise most serious runners would be replacing shoes weekly (and some runners more than twice that often) which clearly doesn't happen. Heck 20-30 mpw isn't high for even recreational daily runners.

-B :)

[The0ne]

I ran on a track team, and for a while we put in 50 miles a week. . . Needless to say we did NOT buy new shoes every week!! You can expect over 200 miles from a pair of running shoes, and if you buy more expensive ones you can get more~!

[achilleus]

Originally posted by oiuyt
Where do you get this figure? I assure you that running shoes can go for considerably more than 50 miles. Try by an order of magnitude. Conventional wisdom for runners (and it clearly does vary by shoe brand, runner, running style and a host of other facotrs) is to expect 3-600 miles out of a pair of shoes. Otherwise most serious runners would be replacing shoes weekly (and some runners more than twice that often) which clearly doesn't happen. Heck 20-30 mpw isn't high for even recreational daily runners.

-B

Sorry about that. It's a typo...

That's 500 miles, not 50...

Sorry for any confusion I generated....

[The0ne]

that makes alot more sense!!!

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Talyn
Read the reviews for Assymetrical Adidas Fencing shoes... I mean honestly I doubt either of you have actually read it. oiuyt even points out the fact that you will either love or hate them and that seems like the case here. You and Achilleus are clearly in the minority here and not to mention incredibly rude to supporters of the Adidas 'Equipment' Shoes.

1) i've read the reviews. I've tried the shoes on. I've had people try to convince me that my volleyball shoes weren't good enough and that I should switch to the assymetricals. Most of these people ended up buying a similar pair of my volleyball shoes after doing comparison tests.

2) Incredibly rude? Moi? How so? The shoes don't work for me, but work for many others, including you obviously. Good for you. I still won't say it's a good product.

Originally posted by Talyn
Anyway, I don't know how you run/fence but my shoes last far longer than 9 months and it's pretty clear that I'm with a lot of the people here on this one. My last pair of cheap dodgy shoes from china lasted for 2 good years before disintegrating[That took 6 months.

1/2 to an 1 hour of footwork 4 days a week plus fencing and lessons. The old style Adidas shoes typically lasted about 6-9 months. The new style, I never even bought when one of the kids I know blew out her assymetrical shoe after 6 months.

Originally posted by Talyn
Basically it comes down to the fact that Adidas Assymetrical Shoes work for most of the people out there.

I'm not so sure that's true. The epee fencers don't like them. The foilists I see are pretty split between old style and assyms. I don't know about the sabre fencers.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by wpotere
Now, as for the R&D comments, just because you "know" someone that spoke to someone does not mean that it is porper information. I have worked with Adidas in the past when it came to TKD (Tae Kwon Do) bag shoes and have to say that they do listen to people in the sport. It is true that the life cycle of a shoe is rather short, but they would not release a shoe if all it did was injure a person while being used. That whole concept is counter productive as you would be fighting off countless lawsuits. Adidas does their home work and has produced a general shoe that can assist most fencers.

The person I know was at the plant in France doing a a project on Adidas to gradute a equivalent Master's degree in business. I trust the information they gave at the time, especially since the durability is about what most shoe companies plan for their shoes.

I fully believe that Adidas listened to the fencers they studied. Notice that Flessel-Colovic usually wears that style, and that the French foil and sabre teams do to. The men's epee team doesn't, but epee seems to be an aberation.

I've stated many times, and will once more. More research than any other fencing shoe on the market, but hardly extensive. It's like saying the turtle is faster than the snail. Sure it is, but it ain't that fast.

Basketball shoes, for example, are made for several different types of players.

The guards who require quick movement, change of direction, low to the ground and lightweight (great for fencing)

The forwards require a little more cushioning and support, and a medium wieght shoe

The centers (Shaq O'neal) require support and cushion, who cares about the weight.

Tennis shoes are designed for different surfaces, and different palying styles. Check out the Adidas Feather and compare it with some of the New Balance support tennis shoes. One is designed to be lightweight and fast, the other supportive and cushioned.

In fencing, we have a shoe that is designed from 4 people who all move in a similar fasion.

If they made they shoe and used a wider range of athletes (how about some Italians, Russians, Koreans, and Germans) and more epee fencers you would see a very different shoe.

Originally posted by Talyn
That said, it comes down to comfort. What are your preferences and how do you fence? That shoe may not be the best for you but calling it garbage only shows the lack of intellect of what the show was designed for.

As for price, I bought mine in Germany from Uhlmann. SO I only paid about 70 bucks.

It is all about comfort. Great price.

I never called it garbage. I just don't think it's that great for fencing. Especially here in the US when the NAC's and many smaller events are held on concrete surfaces...

[Talyn]

quote:
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Originally posted by Talyn
That said, it comes down to comfort. What are your preferences and how do you fence? That shoe may not be the best for you but calling it garbage only shows the lack of intellect of what the show was designed for.

As for price, I bought mine in Germany from Uhlmann. SO I only paid about 70 bucks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It is all about comfort. Great price.


IT was posted by wpotere not me.. But i was kinda confused myself because I bought the exact same shoe from uhlmann in germany for the exact same price