just had a great idea for sabre blades!

[edew]

Maybe they should use adamantium instead. If it breaks, it'll regenerate itself. Saves boo-coo bux on replacing the blade, although the wires and stuff would need to be replaced.

[FencerInUS]

It probably wouldnt be a good idea to make them out of titanium, cause they'd blow away in a a strong wind. (ie missed beat/parry)

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F.I.US.
Parry, THEN riposte
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[damianip]

Hey everyone,

I'm back: been on vacation.

I have very limited experience with cryo-treating materials. We looked at it years ago to improve properties in aluminum alloys. It didn't work for our purposes.

Some answers and comments:

While it can often yield good results, its effectiveness does depend (like any heat-treat process) on the kind of steel in question and the nature of the use the item would be subjected to.

Absolutely true. It's hard to get something for nothing.

I would imagine freezing blades will make them more brittle and easier to break.

Only while they're cold and then it also depends on the material. Many aluminum alloys and stainless steels toughen at very cold temps.

Keep in mind that Cryo treatment businesses are trying to sell you something

This is true. Cryo treatment is one of the latest in flavor of the month panaceae in the metallurgy world. Also remember that the first rule in failure analysis is, "When in doubt, blame the heat treater". The point being that heat treatment is still very much an art AND a science.

Why don't they use titaniium?

Cost and not heavy enough to parry with... oh... right, it's sabre. I guess cost is the only reason then. Actually, pure titanium would be too brittle, but some of the more common alloys would be pretty tough.

Cryo. treatment is apparently most effective on tool steels-- non-FIE blades are more likely to be simple carbon steels.

True on both accounts. However you do find cryo treatment being used on brake rotors for supposedly vast improvements in wear resistance. What alloy they are using is the question. Cheap rotors are usually cast iron or some plain casting steel.

Maybe they should use adamantium

Ah, but the US supply of adamantium is reserved for exclusive use by the Department of Defense as a strategic material...

Paolo

[This message has been edited by damianip (edited 03-24-2001).]

[space_cadet]

Titanium and gold? Both are expensive. It would be cheaper in the long run just to stick with the current blade material.

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Cadet à Space

[sabreur]

Just to throw in my $.02. I haven't noticed a real problem with the new blades--except that when they do break, they tend to detonate right at the bell, rather than breaking up higher.

So it's more impressive when they do fail.

But I've only used the Allstar blades. I can't speak about other brands.

Regards, Mark Ray

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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.

[neevel]

If the main problem is blades breaking at the tang, the solution may be as simple as properly radiusing the join between blade and tang, rather than a new thermal treatment process. A crisp, 90-degree angle at the join will concentrate stresses at that point-- by shaping the join so it's rounded, you greatly reduce the amount of stress there. You can even try radiusing the join yourself using a round file, to see if that helps.

BTW, as I mentioned above, the Vniti FIE foil and epee blades _are_ cryogenically treated, and they are very durable. The cryo treatment is done as a part of the original manufacturing process, though, and foil and epee blades typically experience a different kind of stress (flexing from thrusts or flicks) than sabre blades do.

-Dave



[This message has been edited by neevel (edited 03-27-2001).]