fencing suits

[tofubeast]

hey guys, i have seen in old pictures, and in movies with fencing, there is a guy or girl in a white outfit (standard) and the bad guy always has a black suit on. i was wondering if a black suit was legal in turnies, and even if it isn't, does anybody know where one can get one?

thanks,
tofubeast

[Dave]

Black is the colour worn by fencing masters and coaches not competitive fencers.

IIRC you have to wear white or a pale colour (?) kit to compete in an FIE competition.

[tofubeast]

oh, well thank you, it looks like i have something to work towards

[Delmont]

However FIE is only the big time. At local tournies you can wear pretty much any type of pants you want. But you have a to wear a fencing jacket. I've seen a guy wear camo pants, and I normally wear a pair of black pants. When you get high up is when it matters if you have those ugly, tight, uncomfortable, god forsaken nickers

[MyraTrue]

"ugly, tight, uncomfortable, god forsaken nickers"????

NO WAY! My knickers are just about THE most comfortable piece of equipment I own. You've just never had a good pair is all. But I guess I go with ugly. knickers were NOT design to be worn for looks. Well, not for me.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Delmont
However FIE is only the big time. At local tournies you can wear pretty much any type of pants you want. But you have a to wear a fencing jacket. I've seen a guy wear camo pants, and I normally wear a pair of black pants. When you get high up is when it matters if you have those ugly, tight, uncomfortable, god forsaken nickers

Wow, you must fence in a really laid back division. i've fenced in about six or seven different divisions (local tournaments) and never seen anyone enter a competition wearing anything but fencing pants, or baseball pants.

For safety alone you should wear fencing pants.

And as for tight, uncomfortable trying buying them either loose (non strecthy ones), or just buying a nicer pair (strecthy). They really are quite comfortable.

As for ugly, camo pants take the cake. With black pants and a white fencing jacket a close third. I'm waiting for something plaid or tie-dye to take second.

[FoilyGeezer]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
"ugly, tight, uncomfortable, god forsaken nickers"????

NO WAY! My knickers are just about THE most comfortable piece of equipment I own. You've just never had a good pair is all. But I guess I go with ugly. knickers were NOT design to be worn for looks. Well, not for me.

Well, without getting into Myra's knickers (metaphorically speaking, of course), I'd otherwise have to agree. If you've got a good set of them they're extremely comfortable. I've also seen blades go through sweats more times than I can remember. You can say what you want to about them, but if you've got a good set, they don't constrict you're movement, and they're darned comfortable.

[Peach]

Gosh, except for novice tournaments we're required to wear proper fencing knickers at all our local tournaments.

Mine are a heck of a lot more comfortable when I'm ten pounds below my maximum weight.

[JAySE SUiCiDE]

But I guess I go with ugly. knickers were NOT design to be worn for looks. Well, not for me.

the person wearing them may think they're ugly, but are thankful that the hot man/woman at the club is wearing tight pants..

although i think they dont look bad on me. i'd wear them to school if it werent so cold, and if i knew i wouldnt get laughed at..

You can say what you want to about them, but if you've got a good set, they don't constrict you're movement, and they're darned comfortable.

too true. why, im still wearing mine now, 5 hours after i got home from fencing!

~Jes

[Delmont]

ah so can say what you want about comfort, I still prefer my paint ball pants to nickers. Those are the black pants I was speaking of. Knickers are more part of tradition than safety. It is possible to get just as protective clothing without them being skin tight white pants that stop just above your knee. As for looks, I almost never like anything that is all one color. So where you think a white jacket and black pants may be god ugly, I think it looks much, much better than all white. Now with all that being said, i am thinking of caving in and buying a pair... I just really don't want to.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Delmont
ah so can say what you want about comfort, I still prefer my paint ball pants to nickers. Those are the black pants I was speaking of. Knickers are more part of tradition than safety. It is possible to get just as protective clothing without them being skin tight white pants that stop just above your knee. As for looks, I almost never like anything that is all one color. So where you think a white jacket and black pants may be god ugly, I think it looks much, much better than all white. Now with all that being said, i am thinking of caving in and buying a pair... I just really don't want to.

Fencing pants are about safety, performance, and tradition.

Safety - The USFA and FIE have rules regarding protective levels. Most pairs of fencing pants are designed to be close fitting so that they don't catch any points. Most other pants aren't proctective against broken blades, too loose, or too heavy.

Performance - When working out, loose clothing around the ankle is uncomfortable and gets caught on things. Notice that most sports use short, close fitting pants. Baseball, Football, Hockey...
Top of the line fencing pants are thick, with a dense weave, strecthy, breathable, and last a long time.

Tradition - yeah they used to wear 'em, so? Allstar and Uhlmann used to make a full length pair of fencing pants. No one bought 'em, that tells me something.

As for ugly, it's in the eye of the beholder. That's why I mentioned it. You hate all white, buy your fencing pants and then dye them. But they are for safety and performance first and tradition last.

[Delmont]

I guess i got too used to gi pants. Those are full length and I've never had a problem with them catching around my feet or being uncomfortable. All I'm saying is that other things can work just as well. From what I've been able to see, tradition plays a big part in what is and is not acceptable in fencing. Not a bad thing, not by any means. But for me they are going to be the last thing I buy because I see them as the least Necessary.

[JAySE SUiCiDE]

Originally posted by achilleus
Fencing pants are about safety, performance, and tradition.

Safety - The USFA and FIE have rules regarding protective levels. Most pairs of fencing pants are designed to be close fitting so that they don't catch any points. Most other pants aren't proctective against broken blades, too loose, or too heavy.

Performance - When working out, loose clothing around the ankle is uncomfortable and gets caught on things. Notice that most sports use short, close fitting pants. Baseball, Football, Hockey...
Top of the line fencing pants are thick, with a dense weave, strecthy, breathable, and last a long time.

Tradition - yeah they used to wear 'em, so? Allstar and Uhlmann used to make a full length pair of fencing pants. No one bought 'em, that tells me something.

As for ugly, it's in the eye of the beholder. That's why I mentioned it. You hate all white, buy your fencing pants and then dye them. But they are for safety and performance first and tradition last.

in addition, if you plan on really competing, all national level competitions require them, and im surprised you (you meaning delmont) can get this far wearing them, ive only seen one person wearing sweats instead of fencing pants at any local competiton.

Tradition - yeah they used to wear 'em, so? Allstar and Uhlmann used to make a full length pair of fencing pants. No one bought 'em, that tells me something.

just wondering what you mean by this? i see plenty of people wearing them..or maybe its just that its 1am and i cant understand anything..

~Jes

[MyraTrue]

You know, you COULD tie-dye your knickers. I think under USFA regs, it should be legal. The jacket must be of a light or white color, but that means you could do just about anything you want with the knickers.

And my knickers are the Leon Paul competition ones, which stretch. I'd never give these things up, they're wonderful! I mean, I've got this insanely long lunge (a few of you have seen it), and I need something that can pretty much accomodate the splits. Sadly, they're better protection than my old duct knickers, and that they stretch on top of it all is the best thing since... since... I started fencing epee!

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Delmont
I guess i got too used to gi pants. Those are full length and I've never had a problem with them catching around my feet or being uncomfortable. All I'm saying is that other things can work just as well. From what I've been able to see, tradition plays a big part in what is and is not acceptable in fencing. Not a bad thing, not by any means. But for me they are going to be the last thing I buy because I see them as the least Necessary.

There is no rule about wearing fencing pants, unless you plan to fence at a world cup where FIE equipment is required.

The USFA , I believe, specifices that the pants be close fitting, of a robust material, and have a 10cm overlap between the jacket and pants. Most pants, including baseball pants, fail the 10cm overlap rule, but fit the other two. If your GI pants meet the criteria set forth, go ahead and use them.

Yeah there are other ways to go for almost everything. I can make my own body cords, I can make my own foil wires, I can find alternate fencing pants that fit the specifications of the USFA rules, or I can go to my local fencing store and easliy purchase in one fell swoop everything I need that conforms to the regulations I have to follow.

[tofubeast]

i totaly agree, there is this woman in my fencing club........ oh my god........*shakes head* if only i wasn't epee...then i could get all the girls......like those darn saber guys, with their nickers

[JAySE SUiCiDE]

The USFA , I believe, specifices that the pants be close fitting, of a robust material, and have a 10cm overlap between the jacket and pants. Most pants, including baseball pants, fail the 10cm overlap rule, but fit the other two. If your GI pants meet the criteria set forth, go ahead and use them.

Chapter 3, m.25 of the 2002 Rule Book Edition, Revision C
"the equipment and clothing must provide the competitor with the maximum protection compatible with the freedom of movement necessary for fencing."
"it must not be possible for the opponent to be obstructed or injured by the equipment, nor for the opponent's weapon to be caught up in or deflected by the equipment which, in consequence, must have neither buckles nor opening in which the opponent's point may be caught up -- except accidently -- and thus held or deflected. The jacket and its collar must be completely buttoned or done up."
"fencers' clothing must be made of sufficiently robust materials and be clean and in good condition. The materials from which the equipment is made must not have a surface which is smooth enough to cause the point or the opponents touch to glance off. [B]Clothing must be made entirely in cloth able to resist a pressure of 800 Newtons.[\B] ..."
"The knickers must be fastened below the knees. With knickers, the fencer must wear socks which cover the legs right up to the knickers. These socks must be held up in such a way that they cannot fall down."

not trying to argue, just informing..

~Jes

[Delmont]

The knickers must be fastened below the knees. With knickers, the fencer must wear socks which cover the legs right up to the knickers. These socks must be held up in such a way that they cannot fall down."

Ah, that is open to much interpretation. It is simply saying that if you are wearing knickers it must they must buckle below the knees. Also, "With knickers, the fencer must wear socks which cover the legs right up to the knickers." Implies that there are other types of pants that are suitable. Did this come from the FIE? It was my understanding that they were the only ones who required 800N material. Anyway, that simply is giving guide lines for wearing knickers, not that you have to wear them. It doesn't even say you need to wear a fencing specific jacket. Only something that can be buttoned up all the way, provide suitable protection, and not have anything that would catch the opponent's blade.

[Inquartata]

Pretty much, although you will see on NAC entry forms statements to the effect that "Sweatpants are not acceptable" and so forth. I'd think that would apply to local competitions, too, unless you want to risk losing USFA sanction for the event and voiding the liability insurance coverage...

The points I would make for knickers are that:

(a) they are a known, tested and proven quantity, ie you can be relatively sure how they will stand up to the rigors of fencing and that they will provide X resistance to a broken blade, etc. You cannot know how other sorts of trousers will perform in this regard, as Haggar and Levi do not do test for these things . And most pants are not designed to handle deep lunges and other acrobatic moves. Which leads me to

(b) appearance. To a certain extent you will be judged as a fencer by whether you LOOK like a fencer. There probably are a lot of referees who will, consciously or subconsciously, "grade you down" if you are fencing a guy in Uhlmann FIE gear while you are in cammies, Air Jordans and have eyes painted on your mask. ...and the first time you split your pants in a lunge you will become a legend---not the good kind, either!

[MyraTrue]

It's happened, I've SEEN it.

It was a mens epee event, I believe. I was just cheering on my teammates, and...er.. well, they put a lefty on the strip, so they had to switch reels. So we got the *cough* "back" view. We didn't like the fencer much to begin with , but when he lunged and split his knickers open, we just stared in shock. His team mates couldn't figure out why we'd all gone DEAD silent. And then the laughter.

Thats a hard thing to imagine living down. Oy!