foil changes

[felicote]

I have talked with many people in my club about the changes made to fil fencing at the last FIE meeting and their opinions are split 50:50.

Do you like the new rules that are going to be implemented after the olympics? Why?

[gojujay]

I like most of the changes, but (and maybe I'm misinformed) I don't like the idea about getting rid of the fleche.

[danp]

Are those crazy windowed masks part of the FIE changes as well? If so, count me out.. They look robotic, are heavy, less air flow, more money for new equipment etc... I like the anonymity provided by the current masks as well.

I'm just now being able to use flicks to my advantage, and the fleche is an exciting part of the game to me as well - in general the idea that these changes will somehow make fencing more popular on TV seems misrepresented, and more like change for the sake. Foil fencing is dynamic and interesting as is - why mess with it?

.02cents, though likely worth less. Let the vote decide!

-Dan

Originally posted by gojujay
I like most of the changes, but (and maybe I'm misinformed) I don't like the idea about getting rid of the fleche.

[Namir]

Originally posted by gojujay
I like most of the changes, but (and maybe I'm misinformed) I don't like the idea about getting rid of the fleche.

YOU ARE MIS-INFORMED....THEY DID NOT VOTE TO ELIMINATE THE FLECHE.

[Namir]

Originally posted by danp
Are those crazy windowed masks part of the FIE changes as well? If so, count me out.. They look robotic, are heavy, less air flow, more money for new equipment etc... I like the anonymity provided by the current masks as well.

I'm just now being able to use flicks to my advantage, and the fleche is an exciting part of the game to me as well - in general the idea that these changes will somehow make fencing more popular on TV seems misrepresented, and more like change for the sake. Foil fencing is dynamic and interesting as is - why mess with it?

.02cents, though likely worth less. Let the vote decide!

-Dan

No....the plexiglass shield masks were not part of the deal.

[The0ne]

No the only changes are a bunch of lame ones in foil, "flicking doesn't take skill" yeah right!!!!!!!!

[felicote]

Originally posted by The0ne
No the only changes are a bunch of lame ones in foil, "flicking doesn't take skill" yeah right!!!!!!!!

Regardless of the foil you are using, to be able to flick you need to know where you want the flick to land. To accomplish this you need to measurte your distance and the strength of the flick.
Some people think that to flick you only need a flexible blade. That is a big misconception, the flexibility of the blade only helps your wrist, so that it doesn't get tired. A good flicker can flick with almost any foil.
Flicks are a legitimate attack. you know that it is coming when your opponent extends his arm. It is not hard to parry. And foil is not dueling, epee is. the flicks are a big part of foil fencing by taking them out the amount of foilists will probably decrease.
I remember when I just started fencing, I saw this guy make a flick over the mask of his opponent, I just thought it was amazing. It was moves like fleching and flicking that made me like foil.
Finally, if you take flicking out of foil it becomes epee with a smaller target area. If you don't like ficks, become an epeeist

[Tireur]

Finally, if you take flicking out of foil it becomes epee with a smaller target area.

I guess the whole right-of-way thing escaped you, huh?

[jusplainfencing]

WAIT! there are new rules? when will they take effect? what are they? and where can i find them?

[I_luv_saber]

I saw this guy make a flick over the mask of his opponent, I just thought it was amazing.

That's why I think they should start making all masks with those little plates in back, as with the contour fit masks. I think if a flick were to land in the back of your head or neck it could actually be dangerous...

[wflaschka]

Here is the thread discussing the changes: http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthr...&threadid=9079

Veeco lists the changes in the 2nd post.

[Namir]

Originally posted by The0ne
No the only changes are a bunch of lame ones in foil, "flicking doesn't take skill" yeah right!!!!!!!!

WHERE DID ANYONE SAY THAT FLICKING DOESN'T TAKE SKILL?

Flicking is, indeed, a skill. It is a question of whether flicking is the game that we want to play. Please remember, these new rules are not intended to turn the sport into something new....they are intended undo the damage that was done when electric scoring machines made "flicking" a viable attack.

quote
"Finally, if you take flicking out of foil it becomes epee with a smaller target area."

If you believe that you really don't understand foil.

[The0ne]

Namir,
That is my undrestanding of the FIE's opinion on flicking, judging as they said that it was more like fly fishing than fencing. It's too late to "undo the damage" that would have been in the 80's when flicking first started. Now, it's an integral part of the game that fencers have been tought to perform and defend against for over 10 years.

[Flash Memory]

I'm not really liking the changes at all. Mostly concerning their attempts to make flicking impossible or at the very least more difficult. I was just learning to flick and get some what skilled at it. Figures.

[pkt]

Originally posted by I_luv_saber
That's why I think they should start making all masks with those little plates in back, as with the contour fit masks. I think if a flick were to land in the back of your head or neck it could actually be dangerous...

The LITTLE discs in the back of the contour-fit masks are too small. Look at what I've done to my sabre mask:

http://www.fencing101.com/Photo_Gall...er&id=109_0915
http://www.fencing101.com/Photo_Gall...er&id=109_0916

Now I don't have to worry about getting hit at the back of my head. When you see what happens to the tip of a sabre blade, you'll know why you'll need to make that modification.

http://www.fencing101.com/Photo_Gall...05_R2_1357_019

PK

[pkt]

Originally posted by felicote
...
Finally, if you take flicking out of foil it becomes epee with a smaller target area. If you don't like ficks, become an epeeist

I guess those who hold this view forgot the raison d'etre for foil: at one time it was meant to be a practice weapon for epee...

As a result I think the
-foil spring at 750 gm
-max blade curvature at 1 cm, etc
are good things.

Let's return foil to its roots...

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by pkt
I guess those who hold this view forgot the raison d'etre for foil: at one time it was meant to be a practice weapon for epee...

As a result I think the
-foil spring at 750 gm
-max blade curvature at 1 cm, etc
are good things.

Let's return foil to its roots...

No...it was not a practice weapon for epee.

But,yes, these rules are simply designed to return foil to a thrusting weapon.

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by pkt
I guess those who hold this view forgot the raison d'etre for foil: at one time it was meant to be a practice weapon for epee...

If you are interested in such things, this brief history of the sport of fencing seems to be free of the usual fallacies.
http://www.spada.8m.com/fhist.htm

[Aeric]

Excellent changes from the FIE. I can't wait to try them out soon against some of the highly-rated foilists. They sweep parry and flick to back, ah ha! No light for them, quick direct remise for me. Aw, only have a one-trick bag huh... too bad. Can't deal with a stop thrust when marching down the strip with your arm bent? That's a shame.

Hopefully the lockout time will also reduce the flicking, "Go go gadget flesche attacks".

Removing the off-target lights would present a lot more complications than needed at the moment. That's a really big change, and I don't think we're ready to see it in foil fencing, if ever. It could be exploited a lot.

[The0ne]

Aeric,
You are highly mistaken, now people will just learn to flick VERY HARD. Yup, this is gonna make fencing more popular, bruised shoulders! Good idea FIE!!!!!!!