foil changes

[labouche]

Originally posted by Aeric
Excellent changes from the FIE. I can't wait to try them out soon against some of the highly-rated foilists. They sweep parry and flick to back, ah ha! No light for them, quick direct remise for me. Aw, only have a one-trick bag huh... too bad. Can't deal with a stop thrust when marching down the strip with your arm bent? That's a shame.

Hopefully the lockout time will also reduce the flicking, "Go go gadget flesche attacks".

Removing the off-target lights would present a lot more complications than needed at the moment. That's a really big change, and I don't think we're ready to see it in foil fencing, if ever. It could be exploited a lot.

This is just a really bad excuse for people who can't defend against the flick. The highest you can get with the flick alone is a bad D level. Anything higher than that and the fencer is probably going to beat you regardless of the flick. The only fencers that will gain from taking out the flick are the ones who bend over a lot as to make it harder to hit them on the chest. As far as I'm concerned taking the flick out will reduce form....NOT help it.
-la bouche

[labouche]

Originally posted by The0ne
Aeric,
You are highly mistaken, now people will just learn to flick VERY HARD. Yup, this is gonna make fencing more popular, bruised shoulders! Good idea FIE!!!!!!!

Yeah I can't wait....I can just see it after every bout my oponent will come off the strip crying. No jk. I'm just ticked that the FIE is always trying to change foil and I'm in a kinda bad mood right now.

[labouche]

BTW, I can easily flick to the back in epee so I really don't think these rule changes are going to change that much. Only light flicks won't land any more.
-la bouche

[Namir]

Originally posted by The0ne
Aeric,
You are highly mistaken, now people will just learn to flick VERY HARD. Yup, this is gonna make fencing more popular, bruised shoulders! Good idea FIE!!!!!!!

As usual you are wrong....flicking harer will not make the lockout time any longer. Flicking harder will not make the debounce time any longer. Flicking harder will
not make flicks any more viable.

[1936]

A flick without taking the blade should not be considered an attack, period. fine if there is only one light but it should not be given priority. Seeing fencers chase each other up and down the strip with their arms behind their heads makes a mockery of our sport. foil is a thrusting weapon( and it evolved that way because it is a quicker more deadly method of attack) so thrusts should be allways given priority. a flick can be a spectacular hit but only when it is the exception to the game and not what everybody does. If you manage to attack with a flick while avoiding a thrust by taking the blade or by timing then great! What makes our sport different is the link with it's martial past. lose that and you may as well be playing table tennis or badmitton.




what do u have to say to that chumps!

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by 1936

what do u have to say to that chumps! [/B]

Please,

Don’t feed the troll.

Edit:

1936,

Since you account was made in October I will entertain the possibility that this post is not solely an attempt to start a flame war. If that is indeed the case I would recommend liberal use of the search function in the upper right corner of the page. The ethics of the flick have been discussed here ad nauseam. I would recommend reading and considering the views of some of the tenured and knowledgeable members of the board, or at the least using a slightly less inflammatory style.

This will be my only post on this topic.

[1936]

Someone I disagree with... wrote:

(1936,

Since you account was made in October I will entertain the possibility that this post is not solely an attempt to start a flame war. If that is indeed the case I would recommend liberal use of the search function in the upper right corner of the page. The ethics of the flick have been discussed here ad nauseam. I would recommend reading and considering the views of some of the tenured and knowledgeable members of the board, or at the least using a slightly less inflammatory style.

This will be my only post on this topic.)


'tenured and knowledgeable members of the board'? who r these geeks and what qualifies their opinions?
I was responding to the proposed rules changes in foil which seem to be aimed at eliminating the flick. i offered my opinion on the matter. and no i havent read all the previous postings on the flick but anyway this thread relates directly to it. seems that their is not much else worth discussing here besides how to hold a french grip or wich geeky book should i learn to fence from or here is a photo of my lame *** club. you guys speak with such authority without understanding jack.


"i want some crack"
(Some crack head)

[1936]

and if you want to cratizise my speling then yes i did spell which rong.
there r probably more mastakes.

[FlamingDeth]

I must say that this "1936" fellow's charming, suave, and supremely witty writing style and clearly inarguable points and facts have swayed me to his opinion! We should give him a medal.

And I suppose now would be the right time to be completely hypocritical and say not to feed the troll.

[C.J.]

Hey! You are from Fairbanks, Alaska; that's really cool. I have been wanting to move to Alaska for quite sometime. How's the fencing scene there? And how does Fairbanks compare to Anchorage?

[FlamingDeth]

The fencing scene here is ok, but it has a ton of room for improvement. I'd say what the individual problems are, but what it all really comes down to is a lack of people. Sure, the University run fencing classes are all packed, but half the time that I show up for regularly scheduled club meets, I'm the only one there. The only times there's a decent turnout of people to fence are the tournaments.

And Fairbanks is obviously better. How can it not be? I mean, I'm here, after all! :D!

[The0ne]

Is it really cold all the time up there is Alaska?? That's what I always think of when I think of Alaska: cold!

And 1936, I really hope to fence you in a National level bout some day so I can show you what real foil fencing is like.

[wflaschka]

Originally posted by 1936
'tenured and knowledgeable members of the board'? who r these geeks and what qualifies their opinions?

You have to admit it looks pretty silly, when you try to 'put people in their place' without even knowing who they are, or why they are to be respected. Some of these people are quite powerful, and are daily shaping the future of fencing. And, you have many flicking threads that are still live which you can post to, so you needn't get collicky when people yawn at what you find interesting.

On topic -- I've come across people who hate flicks, and people who hate these changes to rules... sometimes the same people. You can't satisfy everybody.

If these rule changes had been billed as merely an attack on flicking, there would have been an uproar from high-level fencers everywhere. I'd imagine also that the German Fencing Federation would have screamed and kicked -- the tip stuff seems tailored to help the French and hurt the Germans.

But (afaik) there was no outcry. The changes, as everybody over there seems to agree, are not to hurt the flick, but merely to revive the importance of point-based fencing. On these grounds, nobody can complain and still look good. I'm already noticing transitional fencing in my videos of upper-level 2003 tournaments. Wessels, for example, is working the tip more, the flick less, and is using more prise de fers.

[frenzl]

I sure that this no flick rule will severly change the rating of many fencers. if you were taught to flick from the start then what do you do. But i like it because i only have recently started flicking and will use the no more flick to my advantage in the future.

[kalivor]

Originally posted by Namir
As usual you are wrong....flicking harer will not make the lockout time any longer. Flicking harder will not make the debounce time any longer. Flicking harder will
not make flicks any more viable.

Yup, but sticking the flick will solve all these things. All you have to do is add some extra force, allowing the blade to bend a bit further, and come down on the front of the shoulder, rather than the back.

Probably not too difficult, with one of the whippier flickmaster blades, and the new tips (I suspect they'll be heavier). Hope you aren't too fond of your collarbone.

Despite the fact that I abuse the flick as much as anyone, I hope these changes work. I'm just afraid of the way they're going to fail.

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by kalivor
Yup, but sticking the flick will solve all these things. All you have to do is add some extra force, allowing the blade to bend a bit further, and come down on the front of the shoulder, rather than the back.

Probably not too difficult, with one of the whippier flickmaster blades, and the new tips (I suspect they'll be heavier). Hope you aren't too fond of your collarbone.

Ummm...You don't need to bend the blade any further. or add any extra force, to stick a coupe.

[dreadfoily]

All I can say is thank you FIE, it looks very good. I can't wait to try this either.{I'm pretty sure I'll be back to foil in a few weeks from now].

From reading the list: The time changes will bring about some new dynamics I'm sure, but particularly the Foil tip pressure to 750 grams.

Although I've used the fleche a mere 2-3 times in the past 4-5 years, it's good to know that it's still there as a reserve. It adds something to the suspense: will my opponent fleche? or not! etc.!
Thanks to FIE, for keeping foil 'pure' no bib as target; and, I like the invert shoulder move; I think we'll see a few of us doing the invert pretty soon. It's a logical step in foil, a person has to move their body beyond "walking like an Egyptian" [see: old song]

I hope to see all of you again, on the strip.

[kalivor]

Originally posted by DanInMI
Ummm...You don't need to bend the blade any further. or add any extra force, to stick a coupe.

Not when done properly at the right distance. Of course, if the distance is right, and the coupe is good, why go for the back in the first place?

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by kalivor
Not when done properly at the right distance. Of course, if the distance is right, and the coupe is good, why go for the back in the first place?

Exactly....

[pkt]

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist sees the wind as a good thing.
The realist changes the tack of his sails with the changing wind.

Them's the rules, deal with it or go fly fishing.

PK