foil changes

[mrbiggs]

I don't think the rule changes will affect anyone on anything more than the local level. First, the tip weight and timing rule changes will make it more difficult to flick, preventing people from buying really flexibile blades so they can flick, even when they have no idea how to do it. It will also help against those long flicks that go from fencer A across fencer B's mask, flat down his back, and hit him in the arse. Anyone who really knows how to flick will be able to do it fine with 750 g. The new timing rules will also make attack in prep and other such calls clearer on the local level, where oh-so-many think that forward motion guarantees an attack. It will just clear fencing up and make it easier to direct (and therefore more televisable, which seems to be the main goal of the FIE and USFA)

[The0ne]

actually, according to one of the members of this board, the timing change seemed to make no difference at all. . . This is true, lower back flicks will be out, but I just fenced an epee tournament, and I had no trouble flicking with that, so I figure there will still be flick of some variety going on after the changes.

BTW, I heard from one of the members of the cadet national team (who goes to a lot of Junior WC's) that the changes will NOT be tested this year, but will be tested next year (the year after the season after the Athens games). Anyone else hear this>?

[fluidfencer]

Where did that comment come from... the 1960s? We have 11-year-old girls who can neatly place a flick on your shoulder (she's been fencing for awhile though). Of course, flicking is just one part of training. It's certainly not a "guy thing", and requires skill and good coaching, not power. I'm not sure what "youngish" means either.

Being the father of a 13-year-old girl (I wish she had more time to fence!), and helping to run a club with over 50% "girls", I take issue with the stereotype.

whoops sorry, ambiguous name.
and its also reasonably rare to find a youngish girl who can flick well (enough to hit the back/back of the head). kudos for that.

as for this girl, what can i say? eventually she'll plateau and find herself not going anywhere with the same strategy. until then, you need to figure something out that'll work against her and let everyone else worry about her on their own time. (p.s.: top 64 at a national event isn't really that tough to do, especially in women's events (usually a lower turnout than the men's events). you only really have to win one DE against someone reasonably comparable in skills. and even then, not all the time. for example, women's sabre at the arlington div2 this year had 52 competitors. everyone was in the top 64 :P )

[glowstix]

it figures!! just as i'm learning to flick they do this...oh well, back to boring old point attacks

[JAySE SUiCiDE]

yeah, very true..ohwell, I realised after I chose it as a nickname that it was primarily for men but its all good...
and thanks for the compliment, Noodle.
The last bout i fenced against "Mary" I won, and at Atlanta I got national points! whoowhoo!..If only I didn't age out of Y-14 in a few weeks..!

and more about that statement...
and fluid, though there are more and more girls that are being able to flick, i know that at my club atleast (westchester, ny) I'm the only girl who can flick, out of quite a few fencers. Could be aswell that where Noodle lives not many girls can flick, or what not. (Thats the Devils Advocate in me kicking in )

~Jes

[JAySE SUiCiDE]

actually, according to one of the members of this board, the timing change seemed to make no difference at all. . . This is true, lower back flicks will be out, but I just fenced an epee tournament, and I had no trouble flicking with that, so I figure there will still be flick of some variety going on after the changes.

BTW, I heard from one of the members of the cadet national team (who goes to a lot of Junior WC's) that the changes will NOT be tested this year, but will be tested next year (the year after the season after the Athens games). Anyone else hear this>?

might just be me, but I don't think the second part of that is true.
I was at the World Cup (just a volunteer), and helped to keep score for a pool bout (womens foil). Well, a woman turned her sholder, the director called halt, and gave her a yellow card. The coach came in and said he was wrong, and a couple of people verified, so they took away the yellow card and gave her a touch because the director was wrong.

so, I guess they were/are testing them out...

~Jes

[dunastor]

No that's another rule, which isn't one of the rules they want to try out.

The turning the shoulder rule has been deleted, and the director shouldn't have given yellow.

[Schiavona]

No that's another rule, which isn't one of the rules they want to try out.

The turning the shoulder rule has been deleted, and the director shouldn't have given yellow.

According to the Canadian Federation's FIE report, turning the shoulders is no longer carded, but it should be considered covering target and carded for that!

The FIE giveth and taketh away

[dunastor]

I believe it is possible to turn the shoulder and not covering target...

[Schiavona]

I believe it is possible to turn the shoulder and not covering target...

If you hold your arm up *nod to classical style*

Is turning your back still an offence? If so then a deep reversal could lead to that.

[dunastor]

Turning around is still an offence.

But cancelling the rule about shoulder reversal makes things a lot easier, now you don't have to look for shoulder reversal AND covering target, but just for covering target.

[Craig]

If you hold your arm up *nod to classical style*

Actually, it would depend on what target was being aimed at with the foil.

For instance, if you have your arm up and turn the shoulder in and I'm attempting to hit with coupe' or flick to the top of your non-weapon shoulder, holding your arm high now covers target and grants you an advantage.

It's up to the referee to determine at what point the arm is covering target and providing an advantage to the "coverer". If no advantage is provided, then it shouldn't be carded (IMO).

Craig

[Aeric]

Ha! That explains why I got three red cards for "covering target" at a tournament. I never got any complaints by directors for my actions before that, yet one director kept insisting that I was turning my shoulders... four times.

If the opponent does a flesche attack with a flick and ends up right next to your right side, is it okay to turn your shoulders to position your foil tip in his area? Because I was turning my shoulders in a way that IF the opponent was in FRONT of me, would have been illegal, but he was on my right side and we were in-fighting. I kept getting carded and I was never carded for it before.

[dunastor]

Infighting is a situation which often leads to reversal of the shoulderline in foil.

As Craig says, if it doesn't lead to an advantage by covering target, I don't see the need to give a card for it...