Ankles and tendons

[MyraTrue]

I know there's been some talk of weak ankles and shoes going around. I remember some people saying that you'd always have weak ankles if you rely on a shoe that supports your ankles.

I've got a possibly similar issue. I have fenced the last year in an ankle brace after straining tendons. I ended up fencing without it the other day, and I fenced poorly. Not because it hurt not to wear it, but because it wasn't there, and nothing worked the same! I managed to roll my ankle in short order.

So I've been trying not to wear my lace up brace as much, but the tendons are back to screaming at me. Is this something that I'm just going to be wearing it for the rest of my fencing (which I don't mind really)? Or is there a way to taper off my use unless I need it (for the times I manage a bad fleche and its all in shamles again)?

Myra

[Craig]

Myra,

I your ankle is used to having the brace, then it is relying on it and not on the muscles that should be holding everything in place.

The best way to approach this is through a physical therapist. If you are on a university team, you may have access to some PTs via the sports med program.

You can also do a search on ankle exercises to find some exercises used to strengthen the ankle.

Hope that helps,
Craig

[Rwrylsin]

I'll second that, go see a professional, everybody is different.

They should be able to give you the right excerices to re-strengthen your ankle, or at least tell you definitively if it's a lost cause and you'll have to live with a brace (or more likely, your options for surgery, not many lost causes these days I gather.

My ankles are very prone to rolling and have been sprained a couple of times, but thanks to the right advice I've spent very little time in a brace and only really wear hi-tops as added insurance.

[MyraTrue]

In the last few days, I've realized exactly what I keep doing that leaves me limping around. I roll my ankle (usually in close quarters), but not inward like in a lunge, but to the outside... which is why the tendon troubles.

I'd love to go see the PT, but... er... once I'm on graduate insurance. But I think that may be my best option. I'll keep fencing for the next couple months on it with the brace, and see if someone can help me out after that.

Myra

[pkt]

Caveat: I'm not a professional of anything. I just have some common sense and I'm old enough to know.

You did not mention which foot it is that's causing the problem. I'm guessing it's your rear foot.

If you're rolling your foot the way you described, i.e. outwards, perhaps you need some orthodic inserts in your fencing shoe[s] to correct/prevent the rolling?

Or, take some videos of your close-quarter fighting to see what you're doing wrong to cause the outward rolling of your foot which I must add is quite unusual to say the least.

PK

[MyraTrue]

*smacks forehead* aw crap, you're right. I never said.

All the trouble is really with my back ankle (the left). It either starts up again with a bad fleche, or getting into close quarters (I think there's some crazy crossover in there) etc. I managed to get in so close I tripped on some poor guys foot and rolled over to the outside the other evening. Oooops. Landed on my butt for it too. But I DID get my point.

In part, I my footwork is just spastic enough for me to blame it. Footwork can ALWAYS be better, right? The ankle isn't a surprise, being that it occured after lunging into the splits twice in a practice.

[JEC]

Get a physical therapist consultation. To some extent you are right. Your muscle reactions are used to the brace. I use my ankle brace for competitions and when it hurts for next two weeks. Over the year, it is about 1/4th of my fencing time. I use my elastic knee brace all the time because I can not afford fencing without it despite continuing my PT (weights at least once a week).

[pkt]

All the advice about PT is only trying to remedy the after-effects of what ails Myra.

The long-term cure is to find out what she's actually doing to cause the damage. Correct those actions/stop her from doing them, hopefully she will not need her braces ever again.

Cure the root of the sickness, not just treat the symptoms. Does that sound logical?

PK

[MyraTrue]

PKT, I've few words to begin to say how much I appreciate that attitude. I'm tired of curing symptoms.

At first, I thought it was due to rolling my ankle over every time I lunged. Once I did enough damage, I started to wear a metal braced support, which kept me from doing this as much (though it might just have been enough fencing that I stopped it). The problem still persisted. I'm still thinking its erratic footwork.

Hmm... *adds to her "to fix" list*

[pkt]

Therefore, my suggestion about video-taping your fencing hould find the cause of your problem.

Have a friend do the shooting for you with the camera focused on your footwork. Place the camera on the ground and see what comes out. Cheaper than seeing a PT given the fact that you do not live in Canada...where going to see someone in the sports medicine field is just a requisition away from one's family doctor.

What does this mean: "... once I'm on graduate insurance." Does that mean Health insurance for a grad student? Does that mean you do NOT have health insurance coverage NOW?

PK

[pkt]

Myra,
I thought I'm up late: It's 00:12 Pacific Standard Time now. So you're one or two hours ahead of me...

PK

[MyraTrue]

PKT... its not all THAT late, is it? *wondering about my time zone* I'm on Pacific, so its earlier for me than just about anyone else. Its about 2am now.

Lets see... I'll try to find someone with camera rites when I get back to Indiana. It could actually help a lot. People can tell you, "you're doing it again" and you don't believe them till you see it in all blinding humiliating live photage.

hmmm....

now I'm going to BED!

[veeco]

Originally posted by pkt
All the advice about PT is only trying to remedy the after-effects of what ails Myra.

The long-term cure is to find out what she's actually doing to cause the damage. Correct those actions/stop her from doing them, hopefully she will not need her braces ever again.

Cure the root of the sickness, not just treat the symptoms. Does that sound logical?

PK

Of course, JEC is the doctor here, but he wouldn't know what he's talking about would he?

Go see a PT.

[JEC]

A good physical therapist knows when to refer to a doctor. If this is a chronic problem with the mechanics of fencing, video taping would be helpful, you might need orthotics, but a good PT will tell you that too. Check out the PT staff in Sports Medicine rehab facilities.

If you want to see a MD first, then, select the one that will have a good chance of helping you. Ask around for a Sports Medicine doc who specializes in ankles. Good tip is to see who treats the "million" dollar ankles. Oh, and avoid going with the guy who diagnosed Grant Hill. Although I have to say that this is a great example about being FORCED to play ahead of completing rehab resulting in a terrible outcome.

[Inquartata]

That business about wearing high-tops weakening your ankles may well be true, but then, I say rather a lot of people fencing in Palm Springs wearing low tops with an ankle brace on at least one ankle, so if it's a choice between weak ankles and strong ones which are always getting injured I'll take the former...

As for weaning yourself from the brace---why not just do your drills and footwork practice without it, when you can concentrate on good form and not reinjuring, then wear it to fence until it gets stronger?

[JEC]

Originally posted by Inquartata
As for weaning yourself from the brace---why not just do your drills and footwork practice without it, when you can concentrate on good form and not reinjuring, then wear it to fence until it gets stronger?

This is a good point but only when your rehab has strengthen the ankle with stationary exercises and you know that you do not have a "structural" problem, meaning, that your ankle anatomy is sound and not broken.

[Catlady]

It's strange, but I have got to have about the world's worst ankles and yet I haven't twisted one fencing (I've fenced for about 4 years, so granted not that long, but . . .) though I've twisted one twice (can't remember if it's the same one) walking down the street ( swear, it just jumped up and grabbed me ). My problem is just crummy anatomy. I have a really high arch so not much of my foot contacts the ground, plus my ankles are very loose flexibility wise (not to mention I've twisted them about a gazillion times over my 28 years and each time, from what I understand, the laxity just gets laxer).

[MyraTrue]

Veeco- I belive there is no slight to PT's here. However, I know with all other injuries I've had that send me to see the PT, its been an issue of trying to undo all the damage I'd done, and being told that I 'shouldn't fence' or 'shouldn't play rubgy'. I gave up rugby, but I wont the fencing.

I WILL go and see the sports med Doc, and maybe the PT when I get back to where I have access (and insurance) to see one. Maybe they can help me, I certainly don't discount it.

But if the ultimate cause of my injuries is my sloppy footwork, then its a good reason to fix that first!

Catlady- I know just what you mean. I'm one of those AWFULLY flexible people. I bend in all sorts of directions people tell me "you can't do that!" for. I've only once managed to roll my ankle outside of fencing, and it was recently. Felt kinda silly "the last step is a doozy!"

[pkt]

With all due respect to JEC, my statement still stand:
Look to cure teh source of the alement, not just treat the symptoms.

...and I trust that a good doctor would agree with that philosophy.

PK

[JEC]

Originally posted by pkt
With all due respect to JEC, my statement still stand:
Look to cure teh source of the alement, not just treat the symptoms.
...and I trust that a good doctor would agree with that philosophy.
PK

I agree with curing the ailment not the symptom. You could go and spend $250 (if no insurance) or $75 to find the same answer.
If you are lesioned:
The doc will diagnose you and send you to PT to plan rehab. Or, the PT will recognize that you need to see the doc and send you to the specialist that s/he knows respects the most (a nice way to find a good ankle sports medicine doc), and then receive you back for rehab exercises.
If you are not lesioned but just sprained:
You save the doc fee.

Disclaimer:
If you feel uncomfortable with consulting a licensed Physical Therapist, consult you own physician.