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Hurriranger · 12-12-2003, 01:36 AM

i dont focus too much on them but it's always at the best of times. heres one i use :

it's got to do with where u place ur free hand. some people keep it at their waist, others up in the air. i keep it at a 90 degree angle to my body and whenever i would take a step foward or back or lunge, i would lift that hand a few inches(not a big movement but enough so that it is clearly seen). after the first couple points or at a specially important moment i would lift my hand but not accutally step foward or lunge. However most of the time, the other fencer is accustomed to seeing the movement of the hand/forearm linked with my steps and would start a motion in waiting for the attack that doesn't come. soon as the confusion sets in(half a second), i would then beat attack them most of the time.

note that i do this mostly in sabre.

do you guys have any of these diversions or tricks in general?

Tireur · 12-12-2003, 08:43 AM

You must be fencing is a world of beginners

The0ne · 12-12-2003, 08:48 AM

hahahaha, that made me laugh really hard. . .

CarlKnoch · 12-12-2003, 08:55 AM

I have trouble believing that any fencer would be watching the rear hand of their opponent. I for one can't remember a single time when I watched the back hand during a bout.

I would have to agree that those who are reacting to it are either totally new, or they are reacting to something else that you're not aware of. You may think you are lifting your hand, but you may also be loving your entire body up or down during that. As I do watch the body, it could be seen as a preparation by me.

FoilyGeezer · 12-12-2003, 09:16 AM

I think we've all seen this stuff....

The head twitch, the off-hand flip, the front foot stomp, the bounce.

I have yet to see one of these tactics be instrumental in adding to a fencers effectiveness beyond what they already possessed through their ability to attack quickly and effectively.

Hey, your shoe's untied!

Rolls · 12-12-2003, 09:18 AM

Here's one. I find that there's a certain breed of fencers that will attack any time I look down (usually REAL aggressive). So, I'll wait until I'm just barely outside of their attacking range and glance at floor near my feet real quick. They instantly attack thinking I'm distracted and try take advantage of the moment. Of course, I'm not distracted and in fact ready for the attack.

Rolls.

***Craig*** · 12-12-2003, 11:05 AM

There are certain "tells" you can fake and use to get you a touch here or there.

I have a few of these tactics that I'll pull out every now and then. They do work, against good fencers too, but are only good for one action in a 15 touch bout. Any of those "diversions" are things that you can use effectively. You have to use them sparingly also or they lose their effectiveness.

Craig

The0ne · 12-12-2003, 12:37 PM

Is fluttering your back hand one of them???

Strytllr · 12-12-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

I have trouble believing that any fencer would be watching the rear hand of their opponent. I for one can't remember a single time when I watched the back hand during a bout.

I would have to agree that those who are reacting to it are either totally new, or they are reacting to something else that you're not aware of. You may think you are lifting your hand, but you may also be loving your entire body up or down during that. As I do watch the body, it could be seen as a preparation by me.

I disagree completely. Good fencers are always looking for signals that their opponents are using to broadcast their actions. It's what gives you the edge when you're competing. That's the same reason we work so hard to minimize our own signals. I once fenced a guy who played the drums. Everytime he prepared for a lunge, he started tapping his foot as if marking out the rhythm. After a time, the instructor informed him about it and helped him break the habit.

Knowing that, you can attempt, if you're a good enough con, to convince the other fencer that you have a signal he can read. It doesn't have to be big. Anything as simple as fluttering your hand to the way you hold your fist open or closed or even what you do with your shoulders. You should always be trying to read your opponent and you're always broadcasting your intentions. Once you've convinced him, you slip the tracks and hit him. But Craig's right. This is only good for a point, maybe two if you're really good at bluffing. And remember, once that opponent knows your trick, they're likely to tell their entire team about it.

Almightynoitall · 12-12-2003, 01:04 PM

During one pools bout at a tourney, I was up against a clearly superior fencer. When the score had reached 4-1 against me, I actually lifted my back hand up a bit and made bunny ears for myself... it took the other guy a few moments to register, and as he started to double over in laughter, I lunged and hit him square in the chest... the referee was confused as all hell, and the match ended at an enjoyable 5-2 roughly ten seconds later... still, I'd say it's one of the better touches I'd ever given, certainly one of the most enjoyable...

Tireur · 12-12-2003, 01:53 PM

Remember, beginner is relative............

***Craig*** · 12-12-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The0ne
Is fluttering your back hand one of them???

Only when wearing Jackie Joyner-Kersee nail extensions.

wflaschka · 12-12-2003, 02:01 PM

In the US, there's a Volkswagon commercial that uses the phrase, "Persistent imagination" (or something). This might be a real notion. Anyway, what you're doing is educating the opponent.

One that I always like to use: Make a retreat while dipping the body (flexing at the knees). Make another retreat while dipping the body. Now just dip the body. The opponent will imagine you're retreating, and make an advance. (This is most fun and effective when you're leading footwork.)

Another: When fencers lunge, their torso sinks (gets lower). Sometime when you're across from an opponent, and they're keyed up, just sink your body suddenly. They will retreat. It works even better if you fake with your shoulders at the same time. Good for interrupting an opponent's preparation.

FoilyGeezer · 12-12-2003, 02:48 PM

Okay, okay here's one of my all time favorites.

Some fencer's will consistently watch your weapon hand. Starting from some distance away with your weapon extended further from your body than usual make it obvious that you're establishing distance, attack and land short. Next time set up the same but shuffle inconspicously in using tiny steps but keeping your hand in the same place (unextending as you work your way in) then bam! Lunge in distance.

Most of the time they don't notice that you're body is getting closer because they're looking at your hand which isn't moving until you actually attack.

KShan5[PrFC] · 12-12-2003, 03:11 PM

ummm then they are really bad fencers if they don't realize you are closing distance becasue your hand hasn't moved.

Tireur · 12-12-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

ummm then they are really bad fencers if they don't realize you are closing distance becasue your hand hasn't moved.

Thank you..........

JAySE SUiCiDE · 12-12-2003, 03:34 PM

a kid at the club i go to (fencing foil) always twitches his back hand, and stops it when he's gonna attack...

and there are other ways to tell when someone's going to attack..ie, a girl in my club (fencing epee) always goes foward, back, forward, back, then foward again, the final time attacking.

~Jes

angrylemur · 12-12-2003, 06:16 PM

I watched jean pierre seguin (cadet world champion - epée) do a funny one where in the middle of the bout he kinda turned his head as if something was funny and then looked straight at the ground. the other fencer looked down, a jp did a fleche and hit him.

MyraTrue · 12-13-2003, 03:49 AM

When I fenced in Wales, there was another fencer I started with who would get upset over mostly anything (much as I love her). She'd stop fencing and scream at me, "Myra, stop it! Stop it RIGHT NOW!"

So I made the best of it. I'd put on bunny ears and hop down the strip. I'd dance about, do the kankan... you name it. She learned. You HIT people when they do stupid things like this, but it was fuuuuun before she did.

Though, I did get a point with bunny ears once. I was fencing a relatively new fencer in foil (well, new wasn't far off describing me either), but I put on a pair of bunny ears (by proving a dare) and began to hop down the strip after her. She stopped and stated at me... I hop, hop, hop my way to her and stop. She still stares. So I hit her.

Beyond that, I'm slowly learning to play someone else's game. I can play mine, but being able to change tactics, completely, utterly, throws someone off.

FoilyGeezer · 12-13-2003, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KShan5[PrFC]
ummm then they are really bad fencers if they don't realize you are closing distance becasue your hand hasn't moved.

Not really bad fencers. If you're not obvious about it, you'd be surprised how well it works on decent fencers. It is a question of degree, though. It's all in the theatrics. Advanced level fencers generally won't go for it since they're smart enough to not focus on your hand (which is a stipulation for using the tactic in the first place). But it's fun to do.