Mangiarotti tip

[DanInMI]

What the heck is a Mangiarotti tip?

The new rules coming out of the FIE congress meeting authorize the use of the "Mangiarotti tip," but it is unclear if that means that it will be allowed, or compulsory.

[veeco]

It will be compulsory. The English translation is unclear, but the Spanish and French ones are.

I think, from discussions I have heard on the French fencing forum that this is a new foil tip that has a 2mm travel. This is done in order to make it harder to flick.

[canthidefromme]

Awesome, we get to rewire all our blades and replace the ones that are too flexible.

[veeco]

There is nothing in the new rules about blade flexibility. You just get to rewire all your blades, and you can keep your "flickmasters", as long as they have the new tip.

There is one new rule concerning the blade, and that's curvature. New curvature should be 1cm, as opposed to 2cm. And that's pretty easy to fix: you just run it under your foot a couple times and voila.

[Rolls]

Ok, new tip, but does that mean new barrel and wire? Has anyone put one of these together and used it?

Also, does anyone have any idea when these rules are going to be enforced/adopted in the US? What I really would like to know is should I hold off on buying new tips?

Rolls.

[JEC]

Originally posted by veeco
There is nothing in the new rules about blade flexibility.

The rules clearly state that flexibility is defined as the bend of the blade when in a horizontal position a 200gram weight is placed at the tip. The distance from the unweighted tip to the weighted tip is the bend. The minimum bend is 5.5 cm and maximum 9.5 cm.
This rule is not a change.
See figure 8 and article m8 of the rules.

Some Leon Paul Flickmasters blades would not pass this test.

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by JEC
The rules clearly state that flexibility is defined as the bend of the blade when in a horizontal position a 200gram weight is placed at the tip. The distance from the unweighted tip to the weighted tip is the bend. The minimum bend is 5.5 cm and maximum 9.5 cm.
This rule is not a change.
See figure 8 and article m8 of the rules.

Some Leon Paul Flickmasters blades would not pass this test.

yes....but these are not NEW rules.

[CarlKnoch]

You know, if some enterprising fencing supplier answered this post with a link as to where the tip can be ordered, I would bet people would go look at the website that is linked and possibly order some.

Could be....

[neevel]

At the moment, nobody sells the new point-- it's a proof-of-concept prototype. The equipment companies will need to take that concept and develop their own implementations of it. Presumably SEMI will codify a set of specs (spring weight, lighting stroke, acceptable dimensions), and the manufacturers will come up with their own designs that meet those specs.

-Dave

[veeco]

And this is supposed to happen in time for the next season? Juniors will have to buy a bunch of new foil tips in order to compete starting Sept 2004 in international events. At least the seniors have until at least 2005, but for the juniors, this will be pretty short amount of time.

How many suppliers will have the new tip in their catalog by then? If it is only one, this guy would be in a position of monopoly and would be able to sell those tips extremely expensive. I think this is ridiculous.

[Inquartata]

It is. Except for the suppliers. Once they gear up with the new points they will sell a LOT of them: demand is guaranteed. Which I suspect was at least one factor in the FIE adopting it.

[MikeHarm]

This will be interesting. It'll totally screw over a lot of high level fencer's games that they've spent years developing. Figures it would happen after I got 5 new expensive german 2.0 tips.

On the bright side of all this, I think we might be having a lot more folks doing epee.

[westcoastsabre]

Actually, I think this may make foil much more attractive, I'm even thinking of going back.

[Talyn]

They've killed foil, then again... 2mm really isn't that much I'm pretty sure you can still flick.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by MikeHarm
This will be interesting. It'll totally screw over a lot of high level fencer's games that they've spent years developing.

It's foil's turn. Sabre went through this already, with the no-crossover rule and the capteur fiasco...

On the bright side of all this, I think we might be having a lot more folks doing epee.

Not so fast! It's epee's turn next!

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by westcoastsabre
Actually, I think this may make foil much more attractive, I'm even thinking of going back.

Heretic! Thou...shalt...burn...

[Barry Paul]

The F.I.E. congress where shown a mangiarotti new tip, which like a epee point has a 2.0 mm travel before a hit is scored.
There was a demonstration at which every one was told this would eliminate flick hits. In a vote paper one of the 15 or so questions voted on by every country was 'should Magiarotte points be used/trialed.'?

The points I think that were not considered were:
1. Cost?
2. Reliability?
3. Did they work?
4 Is there a overwhelming problem with flick hits?

As on of the major world Manufactures we have not yet seen the point so its difficult to give a measure reply. However I would guess.
1. 50% more.
2. Many foil points are already unreliable, keeping the same point diammeter will be very difficult and result in a thin wall thickness that already gives problems on continental points.
3. Will it work? Probable not or only prevent an insignificant number of flick hits registering. The question you must ask is, Can you flick hit at epee (the answer is yes)? Certainly fencers will adapt hitting technique to follow the point through ensuring the hit has travel and dwell time (defeating the effect of the proposed increased timing before hits will register).
It is likely the point will be heavier which will make flick hitting easier. (smart move)
4. Is there a problem. Not at Internation senior level, at the last world Champ final there were only one or two flick hits.

So we have a proposed. un-tested change in point design, to cure a fault that does not exist, voted on by people who have no idea and technical expertiese,which probably doesn't work. About par for the F.I.E.

Barry Paul M.D. Leon Paul.

[MyraTrue]

Not so fast! It's epee's turn next!

Inq- there's not much else to DO with epee. As someone flippantly said, "its perfect". Though I cannot far disagree. I do think some of proposed changed that didn't pass, and even the reveral of shoulders, that did... will damage foil.

Glad they DID leave epee alone!

[qatet]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
Inq- there's not much else to DO with epee. As someone flippantly said, "its perfect". Though I cannot far disagree. I do think some of proposed changed that didn't pass, and even the reveral of shoulders, that did... will damage foil.

Glad they DID leave epee alone!

Even if we do have to buy all new tips, we still get to use tip tape to hold the pesky screws in, and don't have to deal with two sets of springs.

[Rolls]

I think the idea behind most of these changes is that not one of them will eliminate flicks, but ALL of them combined are likely to decrease flicks tremendously.

Sure flicking still exists in epee, but exists VERY differently than it does in foil which may be what the FIE is going for. All in all, I think the changes are for the better.

Rolls.