a random thought...

[swordsen]

There never was a time, in my opinion, when some way could not be found to prevent the drawing of the sword.
Gen. U. S. Grant


I saw this tag line on someone's profile today. I must say it is very true. There is ALWAYS an alternative to "drawing the sword." Surrender is guaranteed to avoid a war.

Once you eliminate that option though, there might not be another one.

[Ramrod]

Surrender would prevent the drawing of the sword, but also prevents the free exercise of the rights which are granted in our Constitution.

There times when Liberty must be defended with force, because the price of compromise is too high.

[canthidefromme]

Surrender to Canada!

[Soldier]

Dogbert: I wish the whole world would renounce violence forever and embrace peace.

Dilbert: Why, that's a wonderful thought, Dogbert!

Dogbert: Then I could conquer the whole stupid place with a butterknife!

------------------------------------------------------

Yes, you can always surrender as opposed to putting up any opposition - doesn't mean it'll keep the other guy from drawing his sword anyway, if only to lop off your head.

And if you're okay with simply surrendering a contest anytime the opposition threatens violence, then I thank God you're just in front of a computer, while we've got real men (and women) out there in the military, the police, etc., actually keeping us safe.

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by canthidefromme
Surrender to Canada!

Yes, please do. But please deport Rush Limbaugh and Rosanne Barr first to Mexico. We don't want them. (Oh, and some of the Baldwin brothers too while you're at it!)

[Inquartata]

Hey, what has Mexico done to deserve that?!

[whtouche]

Originally posted by swordsen
There never was a time, in my opinion, when some way could not be found to prevent the drawing of the sword.
Gen. U. S. Grant


I saw this tag line on someone's profile today. I must say it is very true. There is ALWAYS an alternative to "drawing the sword." Surrender is guaranteed to avoid a war.

Once you eliminate that option though, there might not be another one.

Obviously there's always an alternative. But whether that alternative is tenable or not is the question.
Like soldier said, sometimes we have to fight. We could give up and avoid a war, but we would lose much.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

For example, we could have not stoof up and "draw a sword" against Nazi Germany.......and where woudl that leave us?

[C.J.]

Originally posted by Inquartata
Hey, what has Mexico done to deserve that?!

According to George W Bush, "Border relations between Canada and Mexico have never been better."

[The Messenjah]

[Surrender is guaranteed to avoid a war.]

Surrender is a garunteed to advertise your lack of balls. Let me use a better word, how 'bout lack of Spirit? Surrender shows that your character is too weak to fight for what it believes in. Or even worse, surrender showsw that you have nothing to believe in.

There is a time for peace and a time for war. - Ecclesiastes

[KShan5[PrFC]]

That is not true either. There is a time and a place for each. Perfect example, Ghandi stopped a war, but with no physial violence. He went on hunger strikes and made protests.

[Soldier]

Ghandi never fought, but neither did he surrender.

[C.J.]

If a cow says moo, does a moo say cow?

[Soldier]

What the hell?

Well, I guess it goes with the thread subject...

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by C.J.
If a cow says moo, does a moo say cow?

Perhaps we should ask cowpaste...

[pkt]

Originally posted by blue_falcon
Yes, please do. But please deport Rush Limbaugh and Rosanne Barr first to Mexico. We don't want them. (Oh, and some of the Baldwin brothers too while you're at it!)

No, don't do that to Mexico. I love to "spend time" in Mexico.

Send these undesirables to some inhabited island in the Cdn Arctic. We've lots of those. And while you're at it, let them have all the guns in the US too. They can do whatever they want with them up there in the True North.

==)--------------

The Messenjah,

What has balls got to do with anything?

Did Ghandi act with his balls rather than his brains?

As Prime Minister Jean Chretien [JC to you] proved, in spite of being pilloried in the beginning for not sending troops to Iraq, his decision was correct. Those people who acted with their balls for brains tend to forget that Canada have troops in Afghanistan invloved in the "war against terrorism".

There are due processes and there are mindless, balls-driven rash actions.

Read Robert Bolt's 2-act play "A Man For All Seasons". Specifically thomas More's discourse with his son-in-law, Roper, about the laws versus the devil.

==)------------

It's been said by many wise people that force is the last resort. When you can kill with your bare hands, you will not freely punch someone. I guess that's the MAD [Mutual Assured Destruction] theory of peace that existed between the US and the Soviet Union.

Look at India and Pakistan. They've been having skirmishes at their disputed border for at least 15 years. Now that they both have nuclear - not NU-CU-LAR - weapons, they've finally come to their senses.

Not only is violence destructive, violence is expensive. How much is the war in Iraq costing the USA? As I wrote at the beginning of the war in Iraq, one of the reasons of the fall of the Roman Empire was the interminable wars they were involved in that caused the economy to go into a tailspin. Sounds familiar? YOu bet yer.

Everytime the engine of a jet is fired up it costs money.
Everytime the engine of an aircraft carrier is started it costs tons of money.
Everytime the engine of a tank is fired up, it costs money...
ad nauseum.

That in itself is a good reason for a country to avoid drawing the sword.

OK, I admit, I'm a cheap-skate.

PK

[swordsen]

It was Issac Asimov who used to use the phrase "force is the last refuge of the incompatent" (or something like that)

I believe it was Jerry Pournelle who commented that he agreed. It is the last refuge of the incompatent, becasue a compatent leader will use force when it is needed and not wait for the last moment.

As for cost, well there is long term cost of not fighting someone vs the short term cost of taking them out. Arguements can be made both ways.

[Soldier]

Originally posted by pkt
No, don't do that to Mexico. I love to "spend time" in Mexico.

Send these undesirables to some inhabited island in the Cdn Arctic. We've lots of those. And while you're at it, let them have all the guns in the US too. They can do whatever they want with them up there in the True North.

==)--------------

The Messenjah,

What has balls got to do with anything?

Did Ghandi act with his balls rather than his brains?

As Prime Minister Jean Chretien [JC to you] proved, in spite of being pilloried in the beginning for not sending troops to Iraq, his decision was correct. Those people who acted with their balls for brains tend to forget that Canada have troops in Afghanistan invloved in the "war against terrorism".

There are due processes and there are mindless, balls-driven rash actions.

Read Robert Bolt's 2-act play "A Man For All Seasons". Specifically thomas More's discourse with his son-in-law, Roper, about the laws versus the devil.

==)------------

It's been said by many wise people that force is the last resort. When you can kill with your bare hands, you will not freely punch someone. I guess that's the MAD [Mutual Assured Destruction] theory of peace that existed between the US and the Soviet Union.

Look at India and Pakistan. They've been having skirmishes at their disputed border for at least 15 years. Now that they both have nuclear - not NU-CU-LAR - weapons, they've finally come to their senses.

Not only is violence destructive, violence is expensive. How much is the war in Iraq costing the USA? As I wrote at the beginning of the war in Iraq, one of the reasons of the fall of the Roman Empire was the interminable wars they were involved in that caused the economy to go into a tailspin. Sounds familiar? YOu bet yer.

Everytime the engine of a jet is fired up it costs money.
Everytime the engine of an aircraft carrier is started it costs tons of money.
Everytime the engine of a tank is fired up, it costs money...
ad nauseum.

That in itself is a good reason for a country to avoid drawing the sword.

OK, I admit, I'm a cheap-skate.

PK

What's the cost of having your house burned down, your family killed, by an invading army?

[canthidefromme]

Nazi Europe v Socialist USSR and the good old US would sit back and trade with both of em.

[canthidefromme]

Originally posted by The Messenjah
[Surrender is guaranteed to avoid a war.]

Surrender is a garunteed to advertise your lack of balls. Let me use a better word, how 'bout lack of Spirit? Surrender shows that your character is too weak to fight for what it believes in. Or even worse, surrender showsw that you have nothing to believe in.

There is a time for peace and a time for war. - Ecclesiastes

If five huge guys decided i'm a good candidate for beating the crap out of, I would sure as hell run away (or maybe run away, come back with a 2x4 and then run away again).