newbie question on EPEE's

hi all, I just read the faq's and am confused... I am looking for a real
sword for real fencing, not competition fencing and having read the styles
of foil, epee and sabre, I think I like epee best. I found a bunch of site
selling epee's but they are either practise swords or electric for scoring.
can anyone recommend a good real epee on a site that sells them (including
pictures) please? I live in Australia and a local dealer is preferred but
not necessary.
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In rec.sport.fencing on Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:04:36 +1100
Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
> hi all, I just read the faq's and am confused... I am looking for a real
> sword for real fencing, not competition fencing and having read the styles
> of foil, epee and sabre, I think I like epee best. I found a bunch of site
> selling epee's but they are either practise swords or electric for scoring.
> can anyone recommend a good real epee on a site that sells them (including
> pictures) please? I live in Australia and a local dealer is preferred but
> not necessary.


What's a "real sword" to you?

How long, what shape blade, what kind of grip, sharp or not?

First place to start is what period you want. Medieval? Musketeer?
19thC? 20thC?

And what's "real fencing"? What are you thinking of when you say that,
what does it have to have for you to say "yeah, that's it!"?

If you can nail down what you are after a bit more, it's easier to help.

There are swordmakers in Oz, but the waiting times are long. There are
various resellers of blades, but you need to be more precise about what
you want.

Zebee

--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
thusnews:bq9ufj$1vfndu$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:

> hi all, I just read the faq's and am confused... I am looking for a
> real sword for real fencing

Do tell, what do you mean by "real fencing"?

In news:slrnbsh68g.ck9.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au,
Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> Quoth The Raven:
> In rec.sport.fencing on Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:04:36 +1100
> Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>> hi all, I just read the faq's and am confused... I am looking for a
>> real sword for real fencing, not competition fencing and having read
>> the styles of foil, epee and sabre, I think I like epee best. I
>> found a bunch of site selling epee's but they are either practise
>> swords or electric for scoring. can anyone recommend a good real
>> epee on a site that sells them (including pictures) please? I live
>> in Australia and a local dealer is preferred but not necessary.
>
>
> What's a "real sword" to you?
>
> How long, what shape blade, what kind of grip, sharp or not?
>
> First place to start is what period you want. Medieval? Musketeer?
> 19thC? 20thC?
>
> And what's "real fencing"? What are you thinking of when you say
> that, what does it have to have for you to say "yeah, that's it!"?
>
> If you can nail down what you are after a bit more, it's easier to
> help.
>
> There are swordmakers in Oz, but the waiting times are long. There
> are various resellers of blades, but you need to be more precise
> about what you want.
>
> Zebee

as far as I can tell, it would be the thicker Musketeer sword with a fancy,
rather than a bell guard, something I could use with the RCA but with a
sharp tip (I wouldn't use it against other RCA members). I want it to be
authentic for sword play, perhaps have a matching dagger, a subtle pistol
grip. it should be a close match in weight and balance to a competition
style (but I realise it wont be authorised for competition).

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In news:Xns94426D1E12CB5dogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.1 93.32,
Bryan J. Maloney <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> Quoth The Raven:
> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
> thusnews:bq9ufj$1vfndu$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
>> hi all, I just read the faq's and am confused... I am looking for a
>> real sword for real fencing
>
> Do tell, what do you mean by "real fencing"?

duelling for real (though not actually used to the death or for duelling). I
just don't like fake replica's and I am not looking for a sports model for
use in competitions. I am a total newbie when it comes to fencing, so
forgive me if I am using the terms wrong.

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"Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
thusnews:bqb8nd$1s46k2$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:

> In news:Xns94426D1E12CB5dogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.1 93.32,
> Bryan J. Maloney <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> Quoth The Raven:
>> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
>> thusnews:bq9ufj$1vfndu$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:
>>
>>> hi all, I just read the faq's and am confused... I am looking for a
>>> real sword for real fencing
>>
>> Do tell, what do you mean by "real fencing"?
>
> duelling for real (though not actually used to the death or for
> duelling). I just don't like fake replica's and I am not looking for a
> sports model for use in competitions. I am a total newbie when it
> comes to fencing, so forgive me if I am using the terms wrong.

If you have no intent of using it, then there is no purpose in having it--
unless you just want a pretty decoration around.

Highlandish wrote:

>hi all, I just read the faq's and am confused... I am looking for a real
>sword for real fencing, not competition fencing and having read the styles
>of foil, epee and sabre, I think I like epee best. I found a bunch of site
>selling epee's but they are either practise swords or electric for scoring.
>can anyone recommend a good real epee on a site that sells them (including
>pictures) please? I live in Australia and a local dealer is preferred but
>not necessary.
>
>
With no experience going to Oz, I'd suggest finding a ren-faire and
seeing what vendors show up. Then you'd be able to look at, handle the
weapons, and ask questions. Most of the ones around my area (New Jersey,
USA) can also do customer orders. And if they can't make it, most of the
better ones will be able to offer another, more specialized dealer. You
may be asked to part with some serious capital though. Zebee will
correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been given to understand "back in the
day", a quality sword was almost a year's salary.

Good luck and let us know how you fare.

-Joseph

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:02:54 +1100
Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
> as far as I can tell, it would be the thicker Musketeer sword with a fancy,
> rather than a bell guard, something I could use with the RCA but with a
> sharp tip (I wouldn't use it against other RCA members). I want it to be
> authentic for sword play, perhaps have a matching dagger, a subtle pistol
> grip. it should be a close match in weight and balance to a competition
> style (but I realise it wont be authorised for competition).
>

How much money do you have?

The best blade for your requirements will probably be something like a
Del Tin, but they are quite pricey.

have a look at http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/ and www.deltin.it

Darkwood supplies some of the best balanced ensembles it's been my
pleasure to handle, they are worth every penny. I've tried ones from
Triplette and they just aren't as good.

You can get cheaper stuff from people who deal in Chen/Hanwei, and it's
not bad, but it isn't as good. If you can't come at Darkwood/DelTin
money then Hanwei is good value. Something like a practical sidesword
might be worth a try, I think http://therionarms.com has some of the
Hanwei stuff. There's a local dealer, I think you can get him at
masterwolf@optushome.com.au

I dunno what you mean by "subtle pistol grip". If you mean you want
modern furniture on a sharp blade, then you might have difficulty, as
people who make decent weapons don't tend to make them to fit modern
grips. You can sharpen just about anything, but if you want it to be
*good* then you need a blade designed for that. Else just get modern
kit and grind the tip.

Also, be aware that sharp swords may soon to be illegal to possess in
Victora, and probably in NSW. Various bods are trying to get exemptions
for re-enactors, but it's not clear if that's going to come off.

Zebee


--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

In rec.sport.fencing on Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:29:58 -0500
Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote:
>>
> With no experience going to Oz, I'd suggest finding a ren-faire and
> seeing what vendors show up. Then you'd be able to look at, handle the

NOthing like that in Oz. There are some vendors at the 2 big
re-enactment/re-creation events, both of them at Easter. One the SCA
Rowany Festival in Yass, one the Medieval Conference that moves around.

> better ones will be able to offer another, more specialized dealer. You
> may be asked to part with some serious capital though. Zebee will
> correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been given to understand "back in the
> day", a quality sword was almost a year's salary.
>

Not quite The exchange rate is better now, it's about 65-70c US to
the Oz dollar instead of 50c. So a Del Tin with decent furniture costs
say 4 weeks rent, not 6-8 weeks rent

Zebee

In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:05:17 +1100
Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
> duelling for real (though not actually used to the death or for duelling). I
> just don't like fake replica's and I am not looking for a sports model for
> use in competitions. I am a total newbie when it comes to fencing, so
> forgive me if I am using the terms wrong.


If you are new, I suggest you get some time under your belt so you have
a better idea of what you want.

That means a better idea of what good balance is, a better idea of what
furniture is suitable, a better idea of blade type, and a better idea of
what's "real".

For example, my fencing master has handled a sword used in several
duels. He says it was very much like his competition epee, slightly
heavier, slightly more robust, and absolutely needle sharp. But if
you saw that sword, then you might not think it is "real". It wasn't
really heavy, it wasn't really wide or thick, it moved like lightning.

(It was, of course, an Italian grip, not French or pistol. As is my
fencing master's electric epee, and he built his sword from parts,
spending a lot of time on the balance and feel. It's a magnificent bit
of kit.)

You won't really know what real is until you have a couple of years of
instruction under your belt, from someone who teaches fencing as a
martial art rather than a sport. So whether that's modern fencing -
foil, epee, sabre - or one of the various varieties of historical
fencing out there. If you let me know which capital city is nearest, I
might be able to put you in touch with some useful people. If you are
in Sydney, I can show you various swords that are pretty close to
"real".

Zebee

--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

In news:slrnbsik9h.ghf.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au,
Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> Quoth The Raven:
> In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:05:17 +1100
> Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> duelling for real (though not actually used to the death or for
>> duelling). I just don't like fake replica's and I am not looking for
>> a sports model for use in competitions. I am a total newbie when it
>> comes to fencing, so forgive me if I am using the terms wrong.
>
>
> If you are new, I suggest you get some time under your belt so you
> have a better idea of what you want.
>
> That means a better idea of what good balance is, a better idea of
> what furniture is suitable, a better idea of blade type, and a better
> idea of what's "real".
>
> For example, my fencing master has handled a sword used in several
> duels. He says it was very much like his competition epee, slightly
> heavier, slightly more robust, and absolutely needle sharp. But if
> you saw that sword, then you might not think it is "real". It wasn't
> really heavy, it wasn't really wide or thick, it moved like lightning.
>
> (It was, of course, an Italian grip, not French or pistol. As is my
> fencing master's electric epee, and he built his sword from parts,
> spending a lot of time on the balance and feel. It's a magnificent
> bit of kit.)
>
> You won't really know what real is until you have a couple of years of
> instruction under your belt, from someone who teaches fencing as a
> martial art rather than a sport. So whether that's modern fencing -
> foil, epee, sabre - or one of the various varieties of historical
> fencing out there. If you let me know which capital city is nearest,
> I might be able to put you in touch with some useful people. If you
> are in Sydney, I can show you various swords that are pretty close to
> "real".
>
> Zebee

that sounds great, I live in Bowral, and I get to Sydney at least 3-4 times
a month for fun and business, I would look forward to seeing what you have.
its one of my dreams to have a few things under my belt, a science degree, a
working knowledge of violins and a working knowledge of fencing. most of
them are coming together right now. I'm 33, some say I am starting a bit
late but I am keen.

--
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings!
You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife: I don't like spam!

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
thusnews:bqblvv$20j310$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:

> In news:slrnbsik9h.ghf.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au,
> Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> Quoth The Raven:
>> In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:05:17 +1100
>> Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> duelling for real (though not actually used to the death or for
>>> duelling). I just don't like fake replica's and I am not looking for
>>> a sports model for use in competitions. I am a total newbie when it
>>> comes to fencing, so forgive me if I am using the terms wrong.
>>
>>
>> If you are new, I suggest you get some time under your belt so you
>> have a better idea of what you want.
>>
>> That means a better idea of what good balance is, a better idea of
>> what furniture is suitable, a better idea of blade type, and a better
>> idea of what's "real".
>>
>> For example, my fencing master has handled a sword used in several
>> duels. He says it was very much like his competition epee, slightly
>> heavier, slightly more robust, and absolutely needle sharp. But if
>> you saw that sword, then you might not think it is "real". It wasn't
>> really heavy, it wasn't really wide or thick, it moved like
>> lightning.
>>
>> (It was, of course, an Italian grip, not French or pistol. As is my
>> fencing master's electric epee, and he built his sword from parts,
>> spending a lot of time on the balance and feel. It's a magnificent
>> bit of kit.)
>>
>> You won't really know what real is until you have a couple of years
>> of instruction under your belt, from someone who teaches fencing as a
>> martial art rather than a sport. So whether that's modern fencing -
>> foil, epee, sabre - or one of the various varieties of historical
>> fencing out there. If you let me know which capital city is nearest,
>> I might be able to put you in touch with some useful people. If you
>> are in Sydney, I can show you various swords that are pretty close to
>> "real".
>>
>> Zebee
>
> that sounds great, I live in Bowral, and I get to Sydney at least 3-4
> times a month for fun and business, I would look forward to seeing
> what you have. its one of my dreams to have a few things under my
> belt, a science degree, a working knowledge of violins and a working
> knowledge of fencing. most of them are coming together right now. I'm
> 33, some say I am starting a bit late but I am keen.
>

Don't forget riding, tobaccos, and hard liquors.

In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:51:43 +1100
Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
> that sounds great, I live in Bowral, and I get to Sydney at least 3-4 times
> a month for fun and business, I would look forward to seeing what you have.
> its one of my dreams to have a few things under my belt, a science degree, a
> working knowledge of violins and a working knowledge of fencing. most of
> them are coming together right now. I'm 33, some say I am starting a bit
> late but I am keen.


Well, I do historical fencing, have a look at
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~zebee for details of our Thursday night
training.

Your timing's not good... we are shutting down for summer!

As an alternative, contact Steve Hand at Stoccatta,
http://www.stoccata.org/ he's also a historical fencer, a bit more
historical and a bit less competition and classical than we are. But he
has more cool swords than we do

Zebee

--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

In news:Xns9443804F1D66dogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.19 3.32,
Bryan J. Maloney <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> Quoth The Raven:
> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
> thusnews:bqblvv$20j310$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
>> In news:slrnbsik9h.ghf.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au,
>> Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> Quoth The Raven:
>>> In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:05:17 +1100
>>> Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> duelling for real (though not actually used to the death or for
>>>> duelling). I just don't like fake replica's and I am not looking
>>>> for a sports model for use in competitions. I am a total newbie
>>>> when it comes to fencing, so forgive me if I am using the terms
>>>> wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are new, I suggest you get some time under your belt so you
>>> have a better idea of what you want.
>>>
>>> That means a better idea of what good balance is, a better idea of
>>> what furniture is suitable, a better idea of blade type, and a
>>> better idea of what's "real".
>>>
>>> For example, my fencing master has handled a sword used in several
>>> duels. He says it was very much like his competition epee, slightly
>>> heavier, slightly more robust, and absolutely needle sharp. But
>>> if you saw that sword, then you might not think it is "real". It
>>> wasn't really heavy, it wasn't really wide or thick, it moved like
>>> lightning.
>>>
>>> (It was, of course, an Italian grip, not French or pistol. As is my
>>> fencing master's electric epee, and he built his sword from parts,
>>> spending a lot of time on the balance and feel. It's a magnificent
>>> bit of kit.)
>>>
>>> You won't really know what real is until you have a couple of years
>>> of instruction under your belt, from someone who teaches fencing as
>>> a martial art rather than a sport. So whether that's modern
>>> fencing - foil, epee, sabre - or one of the various varieties of
>>> historical fencing out there. If you let me know which capital
>>> city is nearest, I might be able to put you in touch with some
>>> useful people. If you are in Sydney, I can show you various swords
>>> that are pretty close to "real".
>>>
>>> Zebee
>>
>> that sounds great, I live in Bowral, and I get to Sydney at least 3-4
>> times a month for fun and business, I would look forward to seeing
>> what you have. its one of my dreams to have a few things under my
>> belt, a science degree, a working knowledge of violins and a working
>> knowledge of fencing. most of them are coming together right now. I'm
>> 33, some say I am starting a bit late but I am keen.
>>
>
> Don't forget riding, tobaccos, and hard liquors.

are you stalking me now? I made one bad joke in another group and you follow
me? I apologise if it makes a difference...

--
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings!
You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife: I don't like spam!

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

In news:slrnbsj13b.hrq.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au,
Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> Quoth The Raven:
> In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:51:43 +1100
> Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> that sounds great, I live in Bowral, and I get to Sydney at least
>> 3-4 times a month for fun and business, I would look forward to
>> seeing what you have. its one of my dreams to have a few things
>> under my belt, a science degree, a working knowledge of violins and
>> a working knowledge of fencing. most of them are coming together
>> right now. I'm 33, some say I am starting a bit late but I am keen.
>
>
> Well, I do historical fencing, have a look at
> http://www.zipworld.com.au/~zebee for details of our Thursday night
> training.
>
> Your timing's not good... we are shutting down for summer!
>
> As an alternative, contact Steve Hand at Stoccatta,
> http://www.stoccata.org/ he's also a historical fencer, a bit more
> historical and a bit less competition and classical than we are. But
> he has more cool swords than we do
>
> Zebee

good links, thanks! I have also made friends with a man who calls himself
"rustythoughts" in another forum who does fencing with rapiers in Sydney, I
don't know his real name, do you know of him?

--
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Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings!
You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife: I don't like spam!

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:14:47 +1100
Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
> good links, thanks! I have also made friends with a man who calls himself
> "rustythoughts" in another forum who does fencing with rapiers in Sydney, I
> don't know his real name, do you know of him?


Not by that name.

Zebee

--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
thusnews:bqc8qc$20e5e9$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:

> are you stalking me now? I made one bad joke in another group and you
> follow me? I apologise if it makes a difference...
>

I've only seen you on this newsgroup. Are more widely dimwitted?

In news:Xns9443DD5E4D8Ddogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.19 3.32,
Bryan J. Maloney <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> Quoth The Raven:
> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> nattered on
> thusnews:bqc8qc$20e5e9$1@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
>> are you stalking me now? I made one bad joke in another group and you
>> follow me? I apologise if it makes a difference...
>>
>
> I've only seen you on this newsgroup. Are more widely dimwitted?

comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action. a small insult of yours was reflected back at
you. I left it alone after that.

--
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings!
You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife: I don't like spam!

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

Just a "bump", to move that stupid non sequitur "yesterday" post on
down the page and into oblivion!

trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) wrote in
news:dc7987e.0312011517.705178a2@posting.google.co m:

> Just a "bump", to move that stupid non sequitur "yesterday" post on
> down the page and into oblivion!

FYI, Usenet is NOT part of the Web, and so Usenet doesn't work the same
way as web-based forums, although it may appear that way if you are
reading the newsgroups through Google. Your "bump" doesn't actually bump
up anything: it just appears as a (uninformative) reply in the thread.
It has absolutely no effect whatsoever on whether or not I (or anyone
else) sees the original post or any of the other replies to that post.

If that's unclear (and I have a feeling my explanation might have a
touch of muddiness about it...) I'm sure someone else can explain it
better.

I recommend getting a decent newsreader program. You can do lovely
things like adjust the settings to your liking, killfile people, and so
on... I am particularly fond of Xnews (which is free, too!).

--Holly