Bush in Iraq!

[arcon]

President Bush made a surprize visit to Iraq.

He flew in under the cover of darkness and no lights.

Cool move!

[The0ne]

[cynisism on] this was Bush's "i'm a good guy vote for me in 2004!!!" trip [cynisim off]

but anyway, i think it was a good gesture, once i get over my ccynical side. . .

[arcon]

I concur. You know he knows its as much politics as
it is a respectful gesture(his visit)

p.s. nothing wrong with a little cycnisism (mispelled i think) and a few well placed sarcastic remarks.

[damion18d]

What about Hiliary showing up like she gives a damn about the soldiers. If that wasn't a ploy to change her anti military rep what was. She'd do anything to go from the first lady of one of the most anti military white houses ever to be in the good graces of a patriotic tidal wave. She and her husband wouldn't let the chiefs of staff in thier white house in uniform, she belittled the Marines who stand guard on the house for thier military service. What a scank. Democrats can rant all they want about Bush using this to his advantage at least he believes in what's getting him to the photo shoots.

[Popper]

I'd like to see Ralph Nader as president.. that would stir things up a bit!

[Talysen]

Yeah, throw Nader in there and let him split the Dem vote more... I'd be all for that, not that Bush has anything to worry about.

After seeing him at Eglin AFB I'm not suprised he made the visit. Most of the troops I know, myself included, have a lot of respect for the man and he knows he has our support. I'm sure the trip was made for a various reasons, but if I was over there it would have lifted my moral.

It's a good thing. I'm sure they (the troops) will be talking about the visit for a long, long time...

[Mo]

Originally posted by arcon
I concur. You know he knows its as much politics as
it is a respectful gesture(his visit)

p.s. nothing wrong with a little cycnisism (mispelled i think) and a few well placed sarcastic remarks.

I think he did it because he watched West Wing and saw what a good thing it was when the President in that show went to Iowa after the tornados.
It was all PR.

[Iwant2bafencer]

I honestly think it was just a very nice thing to do. Sure it gives him an up for the next election, but come on. Most of those guys have been out there for a very long time, the only way they can talk to their family is by satalite phone the lucky ones like once a week. They're probably eating the same crap everyday, crappy weather, the people don't want them out there, and I haven't noticed a lot of support from the people they're fighting for either. Yes, I have said that I'm not exactly 100% for this 'war on terror' but if they're out there fighting there's not much I can do about it, so why not support them.

I think having the President of the U.S. of A. come to see you on Thanksgiving instead of spending it with his family would be a very touchign thing were I there or someone I love.

I say more power to him.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally posted by arcon
I concur. You know he knows its as much politics as
it is a respectful gesture(his visit)

Hey! He is a politician. Everything he does or doesn't do is considered political whether he wants it or not. Perhaps what you are trying to say is that our troops don't deserve the honor and respect he showed them? The man risked his life to show up in Iraq. Something Clinton wouldn't have the guts to do.

[Peach]

Which Clinton? Hillary was there earlier this week.

[achilleus]

it was a political move.

If Bush really wanted to honor the and thank the troops perhaps he wouldn't have lied to them and the world about why the US attacked Iraq.

If he really wanted to honor and thank the troops he wouldn't have invited the Iraqi insurgents to attack.

if he really wanted to honor and thank the troops he would have thought through a more efficient method of rebuilding Iraq (rather than relying on the companies that paid him through campaign contributions) that wouldn't have put the troops in danger and away from home for so long.

Also of note is that Hillary's PR move was decided well before Bush even thought of going. Her people notified the White House, in September, that she would visiting Iraq. Bush didn't even think of going until an aide prodded him in mid October. Coincidence that Bush arrived in time to overshadow Hillary's PR? Most likely not.

Politicians are all about PR and getting re-elected.

[Iwant2bafencer]

I don't like the idea that has now been imbedded into everyone's heads that every single person in politics has no heart. It's a lie and disrespectfull to those in politics that actually do care about the people and that's why they're there. Bush didn't want to go because not only was in putting his life on the line, but also the lives of the soldiers he's visiting. If he had shown up blowing his horn and waving a flag do you know how many Iraqi's that are pissed we're there would jump on him in a heart beat? Which would also endanger the soldiers near by.

I'm not saying it's a fact, but he could have gone to see them because he might now be realizing that he indeed did not think everything through, etc etc and now he might be trying just little thinks to show that he's trying to make it up to them. He can't just pull them out because then it shows the Iraqis that he's a coward which wont settle well for our benefit.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Iwant2bafencer
I don't like the idea that has now been imbedded into everyone's heads that every single person in politics has no heart. It's a lie and disrespectfull to those in politics that actually do care about the people and that's why they're there.

Well, OK, but----can you actually name one of these? I sure can't...


Of course the visit had political aspects. No large gesture by a President goes off without first having a political cost-benefit analysis of it done. But no, that doesn't mean that each is all or even primarily about the politics of it.

The truth, as with most things, is somewhere in the middle, between selflessness and cynical vote-seeking.

[Soldier]

Senator John Shimkus, from Illinois. Can't name you any sources, but I can tell you from personal encounters he actually cares about people.

[C.J.]

Surprise Thanksgiving Dinner at 6 AM?

Yes folks, we are now all bit players in a real-life version of the movie "Wag the Dog." President Bush and his GOP advisers are ecstatic that the president made a secret trip to Baghdad to be with U.S. troops for a "traditional" Thanksgiving dinner. His polling numbers -- which I contend are as fixed as a Florida election -- will undoubtedly receive a huge boost.

I may be a bit naive, and it has been a while since I served on active duty, but I can't recall ever sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner at 6:00 AM. Air Force One touched down at Baghdad International Airport, under cover of darkness, at 5:20 AM Baghdad time. Bush was on the ground for two and a half hours, his plane departing Baghdad at around 7:50 AM. Considering that it likely took some 30 minutes for Bush to disembark from Air Force One and travel by a heavily secured motorcade to the hangar where the troops were assembled, that means our military men and women were downing turkey, stuffing, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pie, and non-alcoholic beer at a time when most people would be eating eggs, bacon, grits, home fries, and toast.

But there on national television, when most Americans were preparing to sit down to their own traditional Thanksgiving dinners, we saw a tape of President Bush serving mashed potatoes and corn to American troops at a "traditional" Thanksgiving meal in the early hours of the morning. What's more, when a clearly exhausted Bush strode around a curtain -- after a "What's My Line" mystery guest routine by Iraq proconsul L. Paul Bremer -- 600 American troops were said to be "shocked and awed" by Bush's surprise appearance. I would have thought most of the troops, many of whom are support personnel who work relatively normal working hours, would have been more surprised when they were ordered to get up before sunrise to eat Thanksgiving dinner between 6:00 and 7:30 A.M.

And the abysmal and sycophantic Washington and New York press corps seems to have completely missed the Thanksgiving "breakfast dinner." Chalk that up to the fact that most people in the media never saw a military chow line or experienced reveille in their lives. So it would certainly go over their heads that troops would be ordered out of bed to eat turkey and stuffing before the crack of dawn.

Democratic presidential candidates will be scurrying to regain ground from Bush's surprise trip and previous indicators that the economy is on a rebound. Of course, economic indicators emanate from public and private institutions controlled by GOP political operatives. With an all time high of 4000 people in Washington, DC having their Thanksgiving dinners courtesy of DC's Central Kitchen for the homeless, those economic indicators seem as phony as Florida's vote totals. And you will never see Bush serving meals to the homeless. What would Bush's handlers do? Have the homeless applaud him? Bush's handlers could have propaganda signs in the background that proclaim: "Fighting homelessness through tax cuts for billionaires."

We should not be surprised or even "shocked and awed" that the Bush administration would resort to yet another manipulation of the media to craft public opinion. We all remember Bush's landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln with the banner "Mission Accomplished." We were told Bush had to fly to the carrier because the ship was too far off shore for a helicopter trip. Yes, the Lincoln was so far off shore that if the camera angles were different, viewers could have seen the San Diego skyline and the top of the Coronado Bridge.

Then there was Bush's State of the Union address in which he cited Iraq's desire to purchase uranium from Africa. We now know that allegation was based on bogus documents laundered by the intelligence service of the Italian proto-fascist prime minister Silvio Berlusconi.

As political handlers like Karl Rove continue to remold Bush like a lump of Playdough, first from a Texas rancher, then to a Navy fighter pilot complete with a corresponding action figure, and now to a globe hopping "James Bond," let us not forget that the war against Iraq was a violation of international law. Even arch-neoconservative war hawk Richard Perle has conceded that point. Rove and company will be pulling more tricks out of their bags as the 2004 presidential campaign approaches. Intelligent Americans everywhere -- and there are many of them -- should pause and think about what they are hearing and seeing on television.

Meanwhile, anyone care for eggs and bacon with their turkey?

By WAYNE MADSEN

Interesting, isn't it?

[arcon]

Reverslunge, you know me better than that. Dont put words in my mouth. The troops deserved everybit of what Bush did(his thanksgiving trip). All I meant was that is was everybit political as it was a trip to honor their service. Again, dont put words in my mouth...ok? especially the WRONG ones. I put one year of preparation and 4 months service into
"Operation Iraqi Freedom". I cant sympathize to what the soldiers are going through but i can empathize with what they deal with as far as taking certain risks and being away from home.
We had our risks, mines, suicide boats,etc. Reverselunge,Ive tried to respect you when some havent but you make it difficult sometimes. Please do not interpret me again if you cant do any better than what you did.

thanks

arcon

[Darion McNair]

Originally posted by C.J.
Surprise Thanksgiving Dinner at 6 AM?

Yes folks, we are now all bit players in a real-life version of the movie "Wag the Dog." President Bush and his GOP advisers are ecstatic that the president made a secret trip to Baghdad to be with U.S. troops for a "traditional" Thanksgiving dinner. His polling numbers -- which I contend are as fixed as a Florida election -- will undoubtedly receive a huge boost.

I may be a bit naive, and it has been a while since I served on active duty, but I can't recall ever sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner at 6:00 AM. Air Force One touched down at Baghdad International Airport, under cover of darkness, at 5:20 AM Baghdad time. Bush was on the ground for two and a half hours, his plane departing Baghdad at around 7:50 AM. Considering that it likely took some 30 minutes for Bush to disembark from Air Force One and travel by a heavily secured motorcade to the hangar where the troops were assembled, that means our military men and women were downing turkey, stuffing, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pie, and non-alcoholic beer at a time when most people would be eating eggs, bacon, grits, home fries, and toast.

But there on national television, when most Americans were preparing to sit down to their own traditional Thanksgiving dinners, we saw a tape of President Bush serving mashed potatoes and corn to American troops at a "traditional" Thanksgiving meal in the early hours of the morning. What's more, when a clearly exhausted Bush strode around a curtain -- after a "What's My Line" mystery guest routine by Iraq proconsul L. Paul Bremer -- 600 American troops were said to be "shocked and awed" by Bush's surprise appearance. I would have thought most of the troops, many of whom are support personnel who work relatively normal working hours, would have been more surprised when they were ordered to get up before sunrise to eat Thanksgiving dinner between 6:00 and 7:30 A.M.

And the abysmal and sycophantic Washington and New York press corps seems to have completely missed the Thanksgiving "breakfast dinner." Chalk that up to the fact that most people in the media never saw a military chow line or experienced reveille in their lives. So it would certainly go over their heads that troops would be ordered out of bed to eat turkey and stuffing before the crack of dawn.

Democratic presidential candidates will be scurrying to regain ground from Bush's surprise trip and previous indicators that the economy is on a rebound. Of course, economic indicators emanate from public and private institutions controlled by GOP political operatives. With an all time high of 4000 people in Washington, DC having their Thanksgiving dinners courtesy of DC's Central Kitchen for the homeless, those economic indicators seem as phony as Florida's vote totals. And you will never see Bush serving meals to the homeless. What would Bush's handlers do? Have the homeless applaud him? Bush's handlers could have propaganda signs in the background that proclaim: "Fighting homelessness through tax cuts for billionaires."

We should not be surprised or even "shocked and awed" that the Bush administration would resort to yet another manipulation of the media to craft public opinion. We all remember Bush's landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln with the banner "Mission Accomplished." We were told Bush had to fly to the carrier because the ship was too far off shore for a helicopter trip. Yes, the Lincoln was so far off shore that if the camera angles were different, viewers could have seen the San Diego skyline and the top of the Coronado Bridge.

Then there was Bush's State of the Union address in which he cited Iraq's desire to purchase uranium from Africa. We now know that allegation was based on bogus documents laundered by the intelligence service of the Italian proto-fascist prime minister Silvio Berlusconi.

As political handlers like Karl Rove continue to remold Bush like a lump of Playdough, first from a Texas rancher, then to a Navy fighter pilot complete with a corresponding action figure, and now to a globe hopping "James Bond," let us not forget that the war against Iraq was a violation of international law. Even arch-neoconservative war hawk Richard Perle has conceded that point. Rove and company will be pulling more tricks out of their bags as the 2004 presidential campaign approaches. Intelligent Americans everywhere -- and there are many of them -- should pause and think about what they are hearing and seeing on television.

Meanwhile, anyone care for eggs and bacon with their turkey?

By WAYNE MADSEN

Interesting, isn't it?

Well that's not very biased now, is it? C.J. where did you dig this up? You know, it's amazing that people are so busy being spin doctors that they don't bother just report the facts and let people draw their own conclusions. Yet another reason people don't trust the media.

The Facts:

Bush went over to Iraq at his OWN risk to talk to the troops, who cares what TIME he got there. 6 a.m. or p.m. makes no difference to me as long as he was there.

Did anyone stop to think that as President he is Commander in Chief and should go there anyway to support those who are under his command? If he didn't go I would think something was wrong, especcially if all the danger had passed.

Did anyone stop to think that he could have been in D.C. or at his nice ranch enjoying Thanksgiving with Laura and maybe even his daughters? He didn't have to go.

True, he wasn't at the homeless shelter, perhaps he should go there next year?

True, Hiliary was there too a little later.

I believe Bush loves the military and wanted to go there for the troops more than anything else. Why? Let me give you an example:

Everytime Bush gets off Marine One what does he do before anything else? Salutes the marine. Why is this important? Because no one cares except the marine.

Clinton never did that to my knowledge.

[Inquartata]

Heh, CJ, tel us how you really feel. Don't hold back like that, you'll get ulcers from bottling it all up.

You did however forget the equal-opportunity scathing for Hillary, though. After all, she hadn't even the excuse of being Commander in Chief.

[C.J.]

No, not really. It was not like he had to pay for his plane tickets and use his vacation time.

[Soldier]

No, but he did have to bother going over to some of the nastiest places on earth, where even the President doesn't have a whole lot of luxuries, be up and about long before 0600, etc. Maybe he didn't have to make all the sacrifices some of us would, but he did go distinctly out of his way when he could have quite easily stayed at home - or even simply gone to a homeless shelter, which would have been a hell of a lot easier and much more comfortable...