Bush in Iraq!

[C.J.]

Originally posted by Inquartata
Heh, CJ, tel us how you really feel. Don't hold back like that, you'll get ulcers from bottling it all up.

You did however forget the equal-opportunity scathing for Hillary, though. After all, she hadn't even the excuse of being Commander in Chief.

Don't worry, she'll be in the office soon enough. I'll talk about her then.

[Iwant2bafencer]

Precicely my thoughts as well Darion. Right on.

Inq, truthfully, I don't know enough about politics, and havn't studied the people in it enough to know who does and who doesn't so at this moment no I can not, but I still believe it's just been drilled into everyone's heads and therefore because The jones' next door say it then it's true. Politician = no heart by popular demand. Course those that do fit the equations should be shot in the foot j/k

[C.J.]

Originally posted by Soldier
No, but he did have to bother going over to some of the nastiest places on earth, where even the President doesn't have a whole lot of luxuries, be up and about long before 0600, etc. Maybe he didn't have to make all the sacrifices some of us would, but he did go distinctly out of his way when he could have quite easily stayed at home - or even simply gone to a homeless shelter, which would have been a hell of a lot easier and much more comfortable...

No, not really. His air force one is, like, a nuclear blast proof 5-star hotel. I would be much more impressed had he actually gone to a homeless shelter and shook hands with the homeless.

[Soldier]

You're weird.

[C.J.]

I am just not gullible.

[Soldier]

Gullibility has nothing to do with starting any statement with "his air force one is, like, a nuclear blast proof 5-star hotel." That's just weird, especially when followed by the statement you happened to follow it with. But I'm done with my arguing here, carry on.

[Inquartata]

It is possible, in attempting to avoid "being gullible", to err too far on the side of cynicism. But I think that instead you have just been gulled by a different crew of flim flam men....

[arcon]

Cj, the man didnt have to go. He gave up being with his family during the holiday. Yes, he went on one of the most luxurious,secure jets in the world.....so what.....Wake up dude! He is the president of the United States. I believe it was twenty something hour flight over there and then back that he didnt have to make. Even some of his most hard nosed critics appreciate what he did. If you cant, then its your problem. There are some debates worth the effort. This one with YOU , is not one of them.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Arcon, you have just gained a lot of respect in my mind.....just to let you know.

And just because the jet is big and luxurious does not put him out of danger. Soldiers are dying every day in Iraq, so obviously there is danger left there. And by the way, did you go serve food at a homeless shelter this Thanksgiving, give up time with your family for the less fortunate??

[darius]

Two sides to every coin.

Even though I think his policies are awful, I don't get the impression that Bush is particularly malicious. Given different handlers, who knows what he would do differently?

Bush went to Iraq on Thanksgiving to visit the troops. They got food and to see the president -- a poor substitute for one's own table and the safety of home. That is a nice gesture, even if it's at a bizarre hour.

That doesn't mean that Karl Rove wasn't salivating all over himself thinking of the way this would spin in the polls.

It would be nice to see a degree of reasoned skepticism in the press corps. However, from what I can gather about the way the White House works, the fawning reporters tend to get access to
the most information.

darius

[achilleus]

Considering that the decision to go came a month after Hilary (he arrived a day before coincidence?) notified the white house of going, and the suggestion came first from an aide, it seems like it originated as a PR move.

It would be nice to be able believe in our politicians, but sadly they have proven themselves unworthy of my trust. Whether it be lying before a grand jury or lying to the world about a preemptive strike to ward off imminent danger.

[Craig]

Originally posted by damion18d
She'd do anything to go from the first lady of one of the most anti military white houses ever...

As oppossed to the current White House that supports moves to cut educational benefits for children of current enlisted men and women and that has cut vet benefits?

All Democrats are marked as "anti-military" and all Republicans are marked as "pro-military", but that's not really the case.

The Clinton White House made some very bad moves at the beginning of their first term and ate a lot of crow for it. However, that administration did learn from GB1 and put a lot of smart bomb technology to the field, which made GB2 able to take out a lot of targets with much greater precision than his dad.

Cheers,
Craig

[darius]

It would be nice to be able believe in our politicians, but sadly they have proven themselves unworthy of my trust.

True, but I'm sure seeing the president made the day of a lot of the boys in the field. Politically motivated or no, that's a good thing.

We dirty liberals are supposed to think of the little people, right? Well, let me go out on a limb here and say that Bush's turkey day gesture was a good one -- even if it hurts my team in the polls.

All Democrats are marked as "anti-military" and all Republicans are marked as "pro-military", but that's not really the case.

Case in point: Dubya's a draft dodger. Wesley Clark is a war hero and four-star general. Who do you think knows best when it comes to military affairs?

darius

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by darius
Dubya's a draft dodger.

Strictly speaking, so is Dean. And of the two, at least W put on a uniform.

Wesley Clark is a war hero and four-star general. Who do you think knows best when it comes to military affairs?

Clark, obviously. But of course, there's more to the Presidency than military affairs.

I might say, "Dean has been governor of a state, which of the two do you think knows best when it comes to civilian executive affairs?" with the same narrow focus and expect the same narrow answer...

[KShan5[PrFC]]

BTW, Clinton dodged the draft too.

[veeco]

So what? I dodged it (in France), a lot of people are doing it. I don't see what's wrong with that!

On the other hand, getting in the draft and then leaving is another story. Those people doing this don't seem to know what they want!

[Soldier]

A guy in my squad sent this out:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An Email from a Captain in Iraq

We knew there was a dinner planned with ambassador Bremer and LTG Sanchez. There were 600 seats available and all the units in the division weretasked with filling a few tables. Naturally, the 501st MI battalion got ourtable. Soldiers were grumbling about having to sit through another dog-and-pony show, so we had to pick soldiers to attend. I chose not to go.

But, about 1500 the G2, LTC Devan, came up to me and with a smile, asked me to come to dinner with him, to meet him in his office at 1600 and bring a camera. I didn't really care about getting a picture with Sanchez or Bremer, but when the division's senior intelligence officer asks you to go, you go. We were seated in the chow hall, fully decorated for thanksgiving when aaaaallllll kinds of secret service guys showed up.

That was my first clue, because Bremer's been here before and his personal security detachment is not that big. Then BG Dempsey got up to speak, and he welcomed ambassador Bremer and LTG Sanchez. Bremer thanked us all and pulled out a piece of paper as if to give a speech. He mentioned that the President had given him this thanksgiving speech to give to the troops. He then paused and said that the senior man present should be the one to give it. He then looked at Sanchez, who just smiled.

Bremer then said that we should probably get someone more senior to read the speech. Then, from behind the camouflage netting, the President of the United States came around. The mess hall actually erupted with hollering. Troops bounded to their feet with shocked smiles and just began cheering with all their hearts. The building actually shook. It was just unreal. I was absolutely stunned. Not only for the obvious, but also because I was only two tables away from the podium. There he stood, less than thirty feet away from me! The cheering went on and on and on.

Soldiers were hollering, cheering, and a lot of them were crying. There was not a dry eye at my table. When he stepped up to the cheering, I could clearly see tears running down his cheeks. It was the most surreal moment I've had in years. Not since my wedding and Aaron being born. Here was this man, our President, came all the way around the world, spending 17 hours on an airplane and landing in the most dangerous airport in the world, where a plane was shot out of the sky not six days before.

Just to spend two hours with his troops. Only to get on a plane and spend another 17 hours flying back. It was a great moment, and I will never forget it. He delivered his speech, which we all loved, when he looked right at me and held his eyes on me. Then he stepped down and was just mobbed by the soldiers. He slowly worked his way all the way around the chow hall and shook every last hand extended. Every soldier who wanted a photo with the President got one. I made my way through the line, got dinner, then wolfed it down as he was still working the room.

You could tell he was really enjoying himself. It wasn't just a photo opportunity. This man was actually enjoying himself! He worked his way over the course of about 90 minutes towards my side of the room. Meanwhile, I took the opportunity to shake a few hands. I got a picture with Ambassador Bremer, Talabani (acting Iraqi president) and Achmed Chalabi (another member of the ruling council) and Condaleeza Rice, who was there with him.

I felt like I was drunk. He was getting closer to my table so I went back over to my seat. As he passed and posed for photos, he looked my in the eye and "How you doin', captain." I smiled and said "God bless you, sir." To which he responded "I'm proud of what you do, captain." Then moved on.