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Old 11-26-2003, 07:00 AM   #1
magni
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mask painting and the RULES

Hey for fencerbill and anyone else who KNOWs what the rules are for
decorating a mask.....

Ive seen Halstead from the UK get Leon Paul to do a spiderman mask for
him. Its on the Leon Paul website

and somewhere Ive seen pennywise the clown done on the mask.

Is there anything preventing mask painting from being done and used on
the strip? at a usfa tourney like a NAC?




Im using krylon spray enamels....


Any answers, tips?

Is ther a better paint I can use similar to the stuf they bake on at
the factory. would i have to bake it on as well. if so what temp? i
dont wnat to screw to much with it though and end up like Smirnov!

Magni
 
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Old 11-26-2003, 07:00 AM   #2
Joseph Haig
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Joseph Haig wrote:

> magni wrote:
>
>> Hey for fencerbill and anyone else who KNOWs what the rules are for
>> decorating a mask.....
>>
>> Ive seen Halstead from the UK get Leon Paul to do a spiderman mask for
>> him. Its on the Leon Paul website
>>
>> and somewhere Ive seen pennywise the clown done on the mask.
>>
>> Is there anything preventing mask painting from being done and used on
>> the strip? at a usfa tourney like a NAC?
>>

>
> As I understand it, you cannot use these masks for international
> tournaments, but they are (may be) permitted for some or all UK national
> events. You would have to check with the USFA before trying it yourself.
>
> I've never seen the Spiderman mask used at competitions myself, but that
> is because I am not a foilist.


Also, this may be of interest to you:

<http://fencingforum.com/forum/showth...=&threadid=463>
 
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Old 11-26-2003, 07:00 AM   #3
Joseph Haig
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

magni wrote:

> Hey for fencerbill and anyone else who KNOWs what the rules are for
> decorating a mask.....
>
> Ive seen Halstead from the UK get Leon Paul to do a spiderman mask for
> him. Its on the Leon Paul website
>
> and somewhere Ive seen pennywise the clown done on the mask.
>
> Is there anything preventing mask painting from being done and used on
> the strip? at a usfa tourney like a NAC?
>


As I understand it, you cannot use these masks for international
tournaments, but they are (may be) permitted for some or all UK national
events. You would have to check with the USFA before trying it yourself.

I've never seen the Spiderman mask used at competitions myself, but that is
because I am not a foilist.

 
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Old 11-26-2003, 07:00 PM   #4
Fencerbill
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

In article <23e9ba68.0311252330.5ace5e4b@posting.google.com >,
michael_lichtstrom@yahoo.com (magni) writes:

>Is there anything preventing mask painting from being done and used on
>the strip? at a usfa tourney like a NAC?


The referee and whether your opponent claims that it is distracting.

Although what could be more distracting than a Lexan faceplate?

If your opponent doesn't complain, there are very few referees who will bring
it up.

Consider some extremes. If you put randomly flashing lights inside the mask it
would probably not be allowed. If you put bits of mirror inside the mask that
sort of randomly flashed light reflections at you, it would probably not be
allowed.

We have seen some all one color masks sold by Allstar and Uhlmann as well as
Zivkovic and they are allowed. I have seen Zivkovic, at least, who had
multi-colored patterns like stars and stripes that he has for sale. Presumably
someone will use one sooner or later.

I could imagine some patters that even I would complain about. Although, as
almost exclusively a Sabre fencer, I would be less likely to see patterns. Have
you seen the S + M colored, even multi-colored, blades? How would that look on
a Sabre mask?

I have not been able to find a specific rule allowing or disallowing decorated
masks. As a referee, I would probably not, on my own, disallow a decorated mask
unless it was extreme. If a fencer brought it up, I would weigh how distracting
I thought it was versus whether the complaining fencer was just gaming against
his opponent.

In my opinion it would be decided on a case by case basis depending on the
pattern, the referee and whether the opponent complained.

So don't try to be the fencer with the most extreme decoration and bring
another, plain, mask with you.

****************
>Is ther a better paint I can use similar to the stuf they bake on at
>the factory. would i have to bake it on as well. if so what temp? i
>dont wnat to screw to much with it though and end up like Smirnov

****************8
Be careful about how much paint you put on. You may have noticed that there are
some masks, which barely pass mask tests, which let more light through than,
for example Prieur, with heavier wire and closer mesh, which let less light
through.

Every time you paint the mask, you are effectively increasing the size of the
wire and reducing the amount of light coming through. Of course when we put the
mask on we adjust for the reduced light so we don't notice. I do think you
could put on so much paint that it would start to interfere with your vision.

I use Krylon myself when I touch up the inside of masks when I repair them.

And since when did I become an expert, I thought I was just a blabbermouth?

Bill Hall
 
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Old 11-27-2003, 07:00 PM   #5
magni
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Hi Bill,

Nice story about the saber fencing btw!!@

Anyways, rumor has it you repair masks and such so thats why i asked
you.

About the ringing. My mask still rings even with the rubber goo i put
on near the ears.

Here's what Im thinking.

What if i went and got some lightweight plastic rod, ground it flat on
one side then put a groove in it so that it would fit on the back edge
of the mask, over the plastic already there.

In otherwords I wouldnt be altering what there is on the mask, just
adding to it.

Is there a rule against that? AM I just telling everyone I have too
much time on my unemployed hands? I like most things about my alstar
mask. but the ringing is deafening and i nearly collapse from the
piercing wail. its always the damn lefties who whack me in the head
trying a flick to the shoulder. Right into my good ear the sound goes.
At this rate Ill be completely deaf by the end of the season.


Thanks,
Magni


fencerbill@aol.com (Fencerbill) wrote in message news:<20031126115925.21642.00002597@mb-m01.aol.com>...
> In article <23e9ba68.0311252330.5ace5e4b@posting.google.com >,
> michael_lichtstrom@yahoo.com (magni) writes:
>
> >Is there anything preventing mask painting from being done and used on
> >the strip? at a usfa tourney like a NAC?

>
> The referee and whether your opponent claims that it is distracting.
>
> Although what could be more distracting than a Lexan faceplate?
>
> If your opponent doesn't complain, there are very few referees who will bring
> it up.
>
> Consider some extremes. If you put randomly flashing lights inside the mask it
> would probably not be allowed. If you put bits of mirror inside the mask that
> sort of randomly flashed light reflections at you, it would probably not be
> allowed.
>
> We have seen some all one color masks sold by Allstar and Uhlmann as well as
> Zivkovic and they are allowed. I have seen Zivkovic, at least, who had
> multi-colored patterns like stars and stripes that he has for sale. Presumably
> someone will use one sooner or later.
>
> I could imagine some patters that even I would complain about. Although, as
> almost exclusively a Sabre fencer, I would be less likely to see patterns. Have
> you seen the S + M colored, even multi-colored, blades? How would that look on
> a Sabre mask?
>
> I have not been able to find a specific rule allowing or disallowing decorated
> masks. As a referee, I would probably not, on my own, disallow a decorated mask
> unless it was extreme. If a fencer brought it up, I would weigh how distracting
> I thought it was versus whether the complaining fencer was just gaming against
> his opponent.
>
> In my opinion it would be decided on a case by case basis depending on the
> pattern, the referee and whether the opponent complained.
>
> So don't try to be the fencer with the most extreme decoration and bring
> another, plain, mask with you.
>
> ****************
> >Is ther a better paint I can use similar to the stuf they bake on at
> >the factory. would i have to bake it on as well. if so what temp? i
> >dont wnat to screw to much with it though and end up like Smirnov

> ****************8
> Be careful about how much paint you put on. You may have noticed that there are
> some masks, which barely pass mask tests, which let more light through than,
> for example Prieur, with heavier wire and closer mesh, which let less light
> through.
>
> Every time you paint the mask, you are effectively increasing the size of the
> wire and reducing the amount of light coming through. Of course when we put the
> mask on we adjust for the reduced light so we don't notice. I do think you
> could put on so much paint that it would start to interfere with your vision.
>
> I use Krylon myself when I touch up the inside of masks when I repair them.
>
> And since when did I become an expert, I thought I was just a blabbermouth?
>
> Bill Hall

 
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Old 11-28-2003, 07:00 AM   #6
Fencerbill
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

In article <23e9ba68.0311270851.66c0429c@posting.google.com >,
michael_lichtstrom@yahoo.com (magni) writes:

>About the ringing. My mask still rings even with the rubber goo i put
>on near the ears.
>


I would get some thin, no more than one quarter inch thick, closed cell foam
and use a glue gun to fasten it between the mesh and the inner lining. A single
piece would be best but you may have to do it in two or three pieces. Start at
the bottom and put parallel horizontal lines of glue about every half inch. Let
each one set before you glue the next so that you have good adhesion between
the foam and the mesh.

I believe this will do two things.

Provide sound insulation to prevent the noise from getting to your ears, and

Deaden the "ringing" characteristics of the mesh.

Some mask have ear holes in the lining and some don't. Those that don't seem to
be much quieter. The closed cell foam should be good sound insulation.

Yes, I do rebuild masks. Sabre masks with new Lame material and Foil/Epee masks
with new lining, etc. I wash and soak them in baking soda after I take the bib
off and it really improves the stink.
 
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Old 12-01-2003, 07:01 PM   #7
William Marshal
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

I wish we could find some way to insulate this message board from
maundering posts not even tangentially related to fencing.

Bump, to push one such down the page.
 
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Old 12-02-2003, 07:00 AM   #8
John Hasler
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

> I wish we could find some way to insulate this message board...

It's not a message board. It's a Usenet newsgroup.

> ...from maundering posts not even tangentially related to fencing.


Such as yours?

> Bump, to push one such down the page.


There is no "page". All you've done is add more noise.

Please go read up on Usenet before posting again.
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
 
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Old 12-02-2003, 07:01 AM   #9
Bryan J. Maloney
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) nattered on
thusnews:dc7987e.0312011529.5b77cad4@posting.googl e.com:

> I wish we could find some way to insulate this message board from
> maundering posts not even tangentially related to fencing.


Like yours.

>
> Bump, to push one such down the page.



There is no "bump", except for the monumentally ignorant. There is no
"page", except for the truly monumentally ignorant.
 
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:00 AM   #10
William Marshal
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> wrote

> Please go read up on Usenet before posting again.


My suggestion to you would be less polite, oh He-Who-Thinks-He-Ruleth-Here.
 
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:00 AM   #11
Zebee Johnstone
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

In rec.sport.fencing on 2 Dec 2003 16:06:14 -0800
William Marshal <trebuchet30303@yahoo.com> wrote:
> John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> wrote
>
>> Please go read up on Usenet before posting again.

>
> My suggestion to you would be less polite, oh He-Who-Thinks-He-Ruleth-Here.



Just proving you are a fool then.

Learn the good manners for the place you are in. Learn how to use your
tools properly.

That's what ruleth here - an understanding of how to behave.

Zebee

--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"
 
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:00 AM   #12
William Marshal
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Don't be any more of a jackass than you can help.
 
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:00 AM   #13
Bryan J. Maloney
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) nattered on
thusnews:dc7987e.0312021604.16f27958@posting.googl e.com:

> Don't be any more of a jackass than you can help.


You're simply too inspiring.
 
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:00 AM   #14
Bryan J. Maloney
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) nattered on
thusnews:dc7987e.0312021606.2177622a@posting.googl e.com:

> John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> wrote
>
>> Please go read up on Usenet before posting again.

>
> My suggestion to you would be less polite, oh
> He-Who-Thinks-He-Ruleth-Here.


Lemme guess, you'd get offended if somebody told you to hold a foil by the
handle and not the tip.
 
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Old 12-05-2003, 07:00 AM   #15
Bill
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Gee, I was just interested in actually hearing the rule regarding mask
painting...didn't realize I would have to witness in-fighting and tantrums.
What fun,

bill...
--)---------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
"Pow.right between the eye's. Oh, how nature loves her little surprises." -
'Life of Illusion' Joe Walsh







"Bryan J. Maloney" <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote in message
news:Xns9445C8C728FE7dogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.1 93.32...
> trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) nattered on
> thusnews:dc7987e.0312021604.16f27958@posting.googl e.com:
>
> > Don't be any more of a jackass than you can help.

>
> You're simply too inspiring.



 
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Old 12-05-2003, 07:01 AM   #16
William Marshal
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

"Bryan J. Maloney" <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote

>
> You're simply too inspiring.


I doubt that you'd recognize inspiration if it ran you over with a steamroller.
 
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Old 12-05-2003, 07:01 AM   #17
William Marshal
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> wrote

>
> Learn the good manners for the place you are in. Learn how to use your
> tools properly.
>
> That's what ruleth here - an understanding of how to behave.
>
> Zebee


Which would be infinitely easier when the lesson is delivered
patiently and POLITELY, rather than with casual insults, don't you
think?

I freely admit that I did not understand fully how things worked here,
technically, for all of you. Perhaps explanation would have been a
better response than brickbats from the comedy insult team of Hasler
and Maloney?
 
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Old 12-05-2003, 07:00 PM   #18
Joseph Haig
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Bill wrote:

> Gee, I was just interested in actually hearing the rule regarding mask
> painting...didn't realize I would have to witness in-fighting and
> tantrums. What fun,
>


Welcome to the joys of Usenet. Try going to a UNIX group and asking whether
Perl or Python is a better programming language. :-D
 
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Old 12-06-2003, 07:00 AM   #19
Amy & Joseph Kormann
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Joseph Haig wrote:

>Welcome to the joys of Usenet. Try going to a UNIX group and asking whether
>Perl or Python is a better programming language. :-D
>
>


That's nothing. Ask which editor they like best: vi or ed. That's fun!

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

 
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Old 12-06-2003, 07:00 AM   #20
Bryan J. Maloney
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Re: mask painting and the RULES

Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> nattered on
thusnews:bqr6qj$npv$1@news.monmouth.com:

> Joseph Haig wrote:
>
>>Welcome to the joys of Usenet. Try going to a UNIX group and asking
>>whether Perl or Python is a better programming language. :-D
>>
>>

>
> That's nothing. Ask which editor they like best: vi or ed. That's fun!
>


GNU?
 
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