serious questions from a female fencer

[miss laura]

ok, I am a fresh fencer and just completed a couple of competitions. frankly, I did ok considering I was a U and fenced several E and D competitors. I have always had a problem being aggressive. Is this a common occurance for women? Any tips would be of much help. my coach is a man, and he has problems explaining to me hints.

[Wizardly]

I hate making gender generalizations, so I'll qualify it like this: most of the women/girls I've seen have a hard time with it. Usually, I find it's a matter of being too much in their head; not enough reaction, too much processing. What ends up happening is that they're thinking s much about what they should do and what might happen that their opponent will surprise them, and they'll freeze and flail or do the "eek!" scrunch (sometimes resulting in a covering target yellow card).

Scream on the strip (don't screech). For two reasons: if you're thinking about screaming, you aren't overprocessing your actions, or if you're screaming, you've let go of what everyone else around you thinks of your fencing (spectators, friends, opponents), you've let go of stopping yourself from screaming, the fangs have come out, and you're fully exerting your actions.

Aggressiveness comes, in part, from trusting your action to succeed. Shut up that part of your mind that makes you hesitate and worry and fret.

[pammie003]

For me, the difference came when I realized that being 100% safe was never going to score me any touches. Sure, I wouldn't get hit, but that's not all fencing is. I used to time out a lot. I try to remember to take chances sometimes. After all, you have 5 or 15 "lives" to work with!

[Peach]

Many of our novices (in sabre, which I fence) have a problem being aggressive, not just women but men too. Quite often, it's because they don't believe that what they have been told will actually work. They're sort of wandering forward thinking to themselves, "I can't really expect to hit that person looming over there just by doing some footwork and lunging, now can I?" and meanwhile they get hit. They perform the actions without conviction. Sometimes I think this is to protect themselves from the risk of failing--if you don't try and you fail, you can blow it off by saying you weren't trying, but if you do try, and you fail, it feels worse.

I suggest setting yourself a task before the "Fence!" command in all your practice bouts, and even in your tournments. It might be to finish your attacks with a strong lunge. It might be to push your opponent forward. It might be (and this can be quite aggressive) to score all your touches in your own end of the strip, using nothing but line. Just decide what you're going to do, and do it. If you do what you set out to do, whether you get the touch or not, you win.

Also keep remembering that you get to hit people. That works for me, but then I never had any problems being aggressive.

[Victor]

I can't offer much helpful womanly advice, being a man as I am. I'm posting mainly just to nod my head from the sidelines...

A strong female foilist in our area has said at least a few times that she likes to fence in mixed events because the men fence more aggressively than women.

Another very good foilist, who just recently graduated high school, has often made fun of other women fencers for being "sort of wimpy" (her words). Not necessarily at the elite competitive level, however, but definitely at mid-level events.

Peach's observations have merit, however.

Not being a totally obtuse sexist, I don't believe all women are doomed to be less aggressive than men. It's been proven to me time and again that the competitive spirit can move anyone, male or female, to heights of accomplishment. However, I'll venture to say that if a difference does exist, it might be in the early stages of fencing skill acquisition, and only because of a general social reenforcement of sexual stereotypes. More guys than gals are going to be willing (driven by social expectations?) initially to leave propriety behind to win sports combat. By the time you reach the upper levels, the less-agressive in each sex have been left behind.

The fact that Laura even asked the question leads me to believe she's already on her way.

[morael]

To wax philosophical, "be agressive" seems to work for most people. But there may be an alternative "spirit" of fencing.

Your thoughts?

[Masterurethane]

Be, Be Aggressive

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by morael
To wax philosophical, "be agressive" seems to work for most people. But there may be an alternative "spirit" of fencing.

Your thoughts?

Someone mentioned to me once that fencing was basically a game of tag -- who gets to tag the other person first wins. So, instead of thinking of "attacking" the other person, think of the weapon as merely and extension of your arm and you're just reaching out to tag them.

[Peach]

Originally posted by morael
To wax philosophical, "be agressive" seems to work for most people. But there may be an alternative "spirit" of fencing.

Your thoughts?

How about "be controlling?" The object of the game, after all, is to trick people so you can hit them, however you do it. Fencers who are merely aggressive are not hard to beat.

[edew]

Originally posted by Peach
Many of our novices (in sabre, which I fence) have a problem being aggressive, not just women but men too. Quite often, it's because they don't believe that what they have been told will actually work. They're sort of wandering forward thinking to themselves, "I can't really expect to hit that person looming over there just by doing some footwork and lunging, now can I?" and meanwhile they get hit. They perform the actions without conviction. Sometimes I think this is to protect themselves from the risk of failing--if you don't try and you fail, you can blow it off by saying you weren't trying, but if you do try, and you fail, it feels worse.

I suggest setting yourself a task before the "Fence!" command in all your practice bouts, and even in your tournments. It might be to finish your attacks with a strong lunge. It might be to push your opponent forward. It might be (and this can be quite aggressive) to score all your touches in your own end of the strip, using nothing but line. Just decide what you're going to do, and do it. If you do what you set out to do, whether you get the touch or not, you win.

Also keep remembering that you get to hit people. That works for me, but then I never had any problems being aggressive.

Interesting... when I get my beginning fencers to fence, I give them good positive feedback even if one of them gets hit, and one of the two will definitely get hit (that's the game, isn't it?). However, I give them negative feedback when they do bad actions, even they happen to score doing the bad action. I care that they make good actions, proper choices, and aggressive, assertive motions, rather than them scoring.

I even have a little drill that does not involve anyone hitting the other person. All that is required is to make another person flinch or get into a state of indecision.

[Kodiak Kid]

Originally posted by edew


I even have a little drill that does not involve anyone hitting the other person. All that is required is to make another person flinch or get into a state of indecision. [/B]

Can you elaborate on this please?

[D'Artag-NOT]

I have always had a problem being aggressive. Is this a common occurance for women?

I'll go out on a limb and say: Yes. It is.

I fence in a university club and see a new class of fledgling feminine foilistas every quarter. (I'm on staff at the university, so I'm there like forever.) The young women seem to have more problems being properly assertive. One girl used to say, "I'm sorr-reee!" every time she touched me--even in a simple parry drill. Another once said, in regard to her (male) opponent, "I don't want to hurt him!" (To which I responded, "Yes, you do!!" ) This seems to happen most among girls with little or no previous sports experience.

It also happens to me. I have trouble being aggressive, especially when fencing a man. I was brought up back when girls weren't supposed to hit, and I also tend to be intimidated by these young, strong men.

I'm still working to overcome this, and here's what I'm doing.

• During distance drills, when I find myself facing a male partner, I come down on him like a runaway freight train.
• During bouts, I remind myself to aggressively advance and to open the first attack.
• This will sound silly, but right after I pull my mask on at the beginning of a bout, I snarl. Not scream. Snarl, hiss, like the fearless jungle cat I'm trying to convince myself I am. Believe it or not, that hypes me up.

I won't really know till my next tournament how well this is working, but these are the things I'm trying. Who knows, one might work for you.

RRRRRRrrrrrr!

[Strytllr]

I would also tend to agree with D... but with an emphasis on women who have not done a lot of sports previously. Of course, that's also not always true, but it's usually the case.

as a funny and interesting story aside, in my first fencing group, there was a girl who had been fencing about twice as long as the rest of us. She was very good and VERY agressive, but only on the strip, while she was tuned in. She had this amazingly fast remise on a lunge. Once she began lunging, she'd drive you to the end of the strip with a non-stop lunge, remise, lunge, remise, etc. It was all I could ever do to parry her, and that's all I normally ever could do. For starters, she was the size of my thigh and left handed to boot, so when she came en garde, I had nothing left to aim at. Usually, when we paired up, she'd rarely hit me for my parries, but I never had time in between attacks to touch her. Once she grew so frustrated that I kept parrying her attacks, she drove me nearly off the strip. My attention wavered for a split second when my back foot hit the edge and she pegged me HARD right between the eyes on my mask. It nearly took my mask off, and definitely left me dizzy for a few minutes. There's this perfectly nice dent right on the edge of my mask because of that. And of course, she couldn't apologize enough afterward. *laugh* I credit any ability to parry from those matches though.

[Victor]

Perhaps in some of the references in this thread, "assertive" is intended (or mostly interchangeable) with "aggressive." Very similar, but not exactly the same thing.

[MyraTrue]

I admit to having issues at first with hitting people. I had them when I started playing rugby too. "But I'm going to hurt/break you!" It wasn't that I couldn't be agressive as far as chasing you down on the stripp, or the pitch, but when it came to doing something to someone... I was worried.

Then again... I used to make guys so mad. They'd know they'd made me angry and would say something like "oh, come on, you know you want to hit me." I was taught not to hit, men included, so I'd smile coldly and say, "sorry, it woldn't be right to hit some poor little guy like you." At least in fencing, its 100% ok to hit him.

I see this every semester in beginners. Men and women, alike, are afraid to really hit their partner, thinking they will hurt them. With a lunge, or a reposte. I learned I wasn't going to break anyone, and everyone else did too. Time worked that little trouble out.

But some of us were still left retreating, and finding it hard to be agressive. I think part of that becomes your fencing "style". It can sometimes be a bad thing to be TOO agressive. I get in trouble for this sometimes in epee: should sit back and fence careful, but instead, I go looking for my point.

You're not going to hurt them, but you sure wont hit them unless you go out there to do it.

[Queen of Hearts]

Aggresiviness is good no matter who you are fencing. If you are aggresive at the very start of the bout, it always throws people off and you can usually get a touch ahead. Also, people will under estimate you a lot (ecpecailly if you fence in mixed events most of the time).
I'd suggest fencing the guys at your club. It sort of forces you to be more aggresive. I should tell you I am the only girl in my club and the second youngest fencer too. It has always been that way, and I have never had a problem with being aggresive. Another thing about fencing the guys is that when (if) you fence in a mixed event you are already used to fencing the guys so it is not too much different than practices. Just make sure you aren't too aggresive and you can still keep control of your blade.

Queen of Hearts!

[sloper]

Laura,
One thing that helped me when I was starting was to get physically stronger. Being aggressive became easier when I could feel my own power. And because I wasn't going to get to the point where I could overpower the guys with my upper body, I focused on my legs - fast, little, low footwork, powerful lunges, quick changes of direction. When you're ready, some weight training or plyometrics will be helpful. There's probably some good science behind this, too, because building muscle is related to increased testosterone levels. I don't remember where I read this, but I'm sure I could find it if pushed.
Another thing is to try to fence in some good sized women's tournaments like a Div III or Div II NAC. You may be surprised to find that your reaction to aggressive fencing from your opponent in this environment is different from when you're fencing men at local tournaments. You may find yourself getting mad rather than intimidated. You may find yourself barely able to refrain from yelling, "Bring it on!". When someone hits a little hard, you may find yourself oh-so-ready to reciprocate instead of backing off and rubbing the bruise.
Then you can bring this fencer back to the guys at home. Won't they be surprised!
Finally, read The New Toughness Training for Sports by James Leohr as soon as you can.

Good luck!
Susan

[MikeHarm]

Use your nature to your advantage, develop a countertime game and let your opponent's agression work against them.

Originally posted by miss laura
ok, I am a fresh fencer and just completed a couple of competitions. frankly, I did ok considering I was a U and fenced several E and D competitors. I have always had a problem being aggressive. Is this a common occurance for women? Any tips would be of much help. my coach is a man, and he has problems explaining to me hints.