RE: [CFML] Digest Number 701

[John Sullins]

Ray,

Here is my address again in case it is one of the ones you lost:

John Sullins
41 Freedom Place
Rohnert Park
California, 94928



Message: 3
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:23:52 -0800 (PST)
From: ray and joan <smithnugent1@yahoo.com>
Subject: duel tapes

Dear friends-(I hope). I somehow destroyed the file
with all of your addresses.The first group will have
received their duel tapes already-if by Wed of next
week, if you don't have the duels, send me your
mailing addresses again. Also to the gentleman in
Mississippi, who got the blank tape, I destroyed your
address also. I am embarassed and I ask everyone's
forgiveness.Ray Smith



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[Richard Baldwin]

>I'm loving all the trivia you're giving out. I had no idea England did not
>use the rapier much.

Actually, England did use the rapier quite a bit. But the Regency period is
very late for a rapier. The rapier was created in the time of Queen
Elizabeth.

Your rapier could also be what's known as a 'cut-and-thrust' sword. They
were just a bit before the rapier, and had nice cutting edges as well as
rapier tips. The rapier's advantage over a later, lighter blade is its
longer reach, but if the opponent gets too close then at least with a
cut-and-thrust sword you can do some damage (in that case you'd probably
better go for the throat, however--Most lacerations don't do enough damage
to kill or disable an opponent right away, whereas even a small thrust will
often put someone into shock). Grappling was commonly used with both
rapiers and cut-and-thrust swords, but I doubt any Regency gentleman would
use pugilism while dueling.

Spanish style is a very interesting, very acrobatic form of combat, only
really practiced well by the Spanish. It involved a geometric circle, the
tangents of which the two parties were always thought to be moving along or
between. The circle is in the mind of the fencer, and no movement is
directly at the opponent (suicide in this form). Instead, opponents would
step sideways at varying angles to take up new points on the edge of the
circle in their head, creating by their movements openings in their
opponent's defense. I believe the reason the Spanish style was so
successful was because it requires so much dancing around that any fencer
who became good at Spanish fencing would also have excellent footwork.


Take care,

Rich Baldwin
Historical fencer

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[Bob Lyle]

Acrobatic? For contrast, let me quote George Silver on the Spanish rapier:

"The Spaniard is now thought to be a better man with his rapier than is the
Italian, Frenchman, high Almaine ... But the Spaniard in his fight, both
safely to defend himself, and to endanger his enemy, has but one lying, and
two wards to learn, wherein a man with small practice in a very short time
may become perfect.
This is the manner of the Spanish fight. They stand as brave as they can
with their bodies straight upright, narrow spaced, with their feet
continually moving, as if they were in a dance, holding forth their arms and
rapiers very straight against the face or bodies of their enemies, and this
is the only lying to accomplish that kind of fight."

So Silver thought the cheif virtue if the Spanish style was its simplicity.
Castle and othe Victorian authors were trained in Italian schools and made
too much of the mystical Thibaust.

Bob Lyle

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Baldwin" <baldwin_r@hotmail.com>
To: <classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [CFML] Digest Number 701
....
> Spanish style is a very interesting, very acrobatic form of combat, only
> really practiced well by the Spanish. It involved a geometric circle, the
> tangents of which the two parties were always thought to be moving along
or
> between. The circle is in the mind of the fencer, and no movement is
> directly at the opponent (suicide in this form). Instead, opponents would
> step sideways at varying angles to take up new points on the edge of the
> circle in their head, creating by their movements openings in their
> opponent's defense. I believe the reason the Spanish style was so
> successful was because it requires so much dancing around that any fencer
> who became good at Spanish fencing would also have excellent footwork.
>
>
> Take care,
>
> Rich Baldwin
> Historical fencer



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The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying rapier blunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
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