how to get a decent boyfriend

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
hmm, I'm on a roll tonight.

So, yes, society SHOULD leave us alone. I mean, alone does NOT equal lonely. Well, alone doesn't have to equal lonely. And I admit those people that are alone, and are happy alone earn my greatest respect and admiration.

And I already look at myself by society's standard and ask "Why don't I have someone? Whats wrong with me?" and I just had another 2 friends get married and another engaged in the last 2 months. They're dropping like FLIES!! *waves hands about frantically*

And that "Why do you really want someone" question is something I've thought a lot about. But I really lack the words and the means to explain exactly why. But its a thing you really DO need to know. The wrong reasons make it all wrong.

Yes m'dear! You ARE on a roll tonight!

Society should leave us alone but there is a very good reason for NOT leaving us alone! It's a groupthink thing -- if there is "someone" then the chances for the propagation of the species increases a heck of a lot! And since the survival of the species is one of those things hardwired into us quite deeply, is it any surprise that society (a manmade theoretical construct anyway) conforms to some of our deepest urges?

Yes, being happy alone is nice. But what do you do if you ARE alone but not happy? (Answer: you read the posts on www.fencing.net a la whatsisface! )

Hey, I'm supposed to be in Chicago today (sunday) for a friend's wedding....... that would be the 2nd wedding this year. I'm averaging two weddings a year for the past 3 years. And I was the maid of honor in one of them! (No, I'm a guy)

Yes -- the wrong reasons make for a bad relationship. Some of the wrong reasons -- desperation, money, sex (but that's arguable! ), sheer loneliness, pressure from parents/friends/society, boredom.

Some of the "right" reasons -- love, companionship, sex (again, arguable!), enriching each other's lives.

By the way, you really should see The Human Stain. It kind of discusses this subject although only peripherally.

[MyraTrue]

but as long as you wave the carrot in front of the horse...

I just dislike the crisscrossed ideals of society. Everyone needs a prince charming, who looks like Mr Handsome himself, but looks don't matter, and there are lots of people out there for you. And of course, he's gotta be rich, but you shouldn't look at someone for their money. But everyone should date, it would only work our perfectly, and get married, have 2.5 kids, live happily ever after with a minivan.

or something like that. Which I know isn't exactly it. But we've got enough people out there we can't deal with, can't feed, clothe, house, etc to say, "but its just continuation of the species." They seem to be doing just fine by themselves. But yes.

And of COURSE I'm in here, because I really DO have no life. But I've got a very good book to read, which I'm wanting to finish tonight, and the company (I'm not being crass, thanks) IS actually quite good at times.

Hey... 3 last sumer, 4 married the summer before that... I'm the only one of the female's in a group of friends I was in when I got to university NOT married. Weird, but ok.

Why? Because I want to spend the rest of my life learning about someone that I respect and love. I want to wake up in the morning and see someone looking as odd as me, and to come home to someone who has had a bad day. I want to share an appartment, and gripe when the sink fills up with dishes, and get made fun of for turning up the radio and singing while washing them. Just, stupid little things. But yes, love, companionship...

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
but as long as you wave the carrot in front of the horse...

I just dislike the crisscrossed ideals of society. Everyone needs a prince charming, who looks like Mr Handsome himself, but looks don't matter, and there are lots of people out there for you. And of course, he's gotta be rich, but you shouldn't look at someone for their money. But everyone should date, it would only work our perfectly, and get married, have 2.5 kids, live happily ever after with a minivan.

or something like that. Which I know isn't exactly it. But we've got enough people out there we can't deal with, can't feed, clothe, house, etc to say, "but its just continuation of the species." They seem to be doing just fine by themselves. But yes.

And of COURSE I'm in here, because I really DO have no life. But I've got a very good book to read, which I'm wanting to finish tonight, and the company (I'm not being crass, thanks) IS actually quite good at times.

Hey... 3 last sumer, 4 married the summer before that... I'm the only one of the female's in a group of friends I was in when I got to university NOT married. Weird, but ok.

Why? Because I want to spend the rest of my life learning about someone that I respect and love. I want to wake up in the morning and see someone looking as odd as me, and to come home to someone who has had a bad day. I want to share an appartment, and gripe when the sink fills up with dishes, and get made fun of for turning up the radio and singing while washing them. Just, stupid little things. But yes, love, companionship...

Hey, I don't need a Prince Charming! But yes, ideally everyone should have someone who they can be happy with, someone they can settle down with, and someone who they can (ideally) procreate with happily! I don't know about the minivan though. I really prefer maybe a more obnoxious SUV

Yes, I've heard all that -- that he should be rich, charming, etc., etc. But really -- do guys like that exist? I wouldn't know since I'm a guy and I'm not looking for a guy! But a lot of women say that that person is an endangered species! As for women, a lot of guys are only looking for a woman who likes them. Of course, if the woman likes them, then they ask, "what's wrong with her"?

I don't know if I have a life -- I'm staying with a friend right now and I'm in her parents' basement typing this out and it's 2:30 am. We did go for dinner and a movie and enjoyed ourselves and we did talk for quite a few hours. That may be seen as life! (And no, this isn't the 20 year old)

And yes, the company here CAN be quite amusing!

I agree -- love, companionship, growing old together. So that you can have someone to have arguments with and so that you can make up later on. Someone to have, hold, kiss, cry with, watch TV with, laugh at silly jokes with. Someone to cook with, eat with, and enjoy the simple little things in life with. Someone to argue with about the furniture, someone to share interests with. Basically, someone with whom you can discover life and all its mysteries, tragedies, and offerings.

Y'know, I always did think that women looked their best first thing in the morning.....

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue


And of COURSE I'm in here, because I really DO have no life. But I've got a very good book to read, which I'm wanting to finish tonight, and the company (I'm not being crass, thanks) IS actually quite good at times.

So, what is this very good book you're mentioning? Fencing related? Bio related? (Something to do with cotyledons?)

Besides, life is overrated! (so I hear)

[MyraTrue]

Lets see... last post of evening, or so I plan. Its only midnight here, but its feeling like 4am.

I guess we make what we can out of the dreams of an ideal partner. And we have to sort through what we've seen, been raised on, been instructed to look for, and find what we REALLY want. And I know just what you mean: "no one would ever like me, what wrong with me? I wish someone did. Wait, you LIKE ME? Whats WRONG with you!"

For women (I guess its sleeping beauty for you, hmm?),does such a prince charming exist? I figure, any man I love that much will look like the best guy in the world to me, and thus will be. And I'll be very happy.

And I think you sum up well when you say that you want someone to "discover life and all its mysteries, tragedies, and offerings." with. I agree.

People are such wonderful puzzles, and I'd like to spend my life slowly discovering one. I'm just something of a wuss in that I'd like to see the picture, at least a glimpse, or a description, so I have an easier time deciding how all their pieces go together. And if I never completley fit the pieces together, it adds to the wonder of the man that'd be my husband.

And I think I'm getting very vile-y sentimental. *grin* I think... its bedtime!

And what am I reading? Er... someone loaned me the book "Debt of Bones" by Terry Goodkind. Its been good thus far.

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
Lets see... last post of evening, or so I plan. Its only midnight here, but its feeling like 4am.

I guess we make what we can out of the dreams of an ideal partner. And we have to sort through what we've seen, been raised on, been instructed to look for, and find what we REALLY want. And I know just what you mean: "no one would ever like me, what wrong with me? I wish someone did. Wait, you LIKE ME? Whats WRONG with you!"

For women (I guess its sleeping beauty for you, hmm?),does such a prince charming exist? I figure, any man I love that much will look like the best guy in the world to me, and thus will be. And I'll be very happy.

And I think you sum up well when you say that you want someone to "discover life and all its mysteries, tragedies, and offerings." with. I agree.

People are such wonderful puzzles, and I'd like to spend my life slowly discovering one. I'm just something of a wuss in that I'd like to see the picture, at least a glimpse, or a description, so I have an easier time deciding how all their pieces go together. And if I never completley fit the pieces together, it adds to the wonder of the man that'd be my husband.

And I think I'm getting very vile-y sentimental. *grin* I think... its bedtime!

And what am I reading? Er... someone loaned me the book "Debt of Bones" by Terry Goodkind. Its been good thus far.

A very, very interesting reply. Quite candid yet guarded at the same time A most COMMENDABLE response.

Yes, we do try to make what we can out of the dreams. But what we really need to realize is what are we REALLY looking for? Yes, people have their stock answers -- brains, looks, maybe money, etc. etc. And the question is, is what we REALLY want what we REALLY need? Remember that what we want may not be what we need. I've known people who have gotten what they wanted but it turns out that that was not what they needed. And if we get what we NEED but not what we WANT, should we be happy?

There's usually nothing wrong with someone who likes you if you ask that "What's wrong with you" question. The fact that the question was asked means that there's something wrong with the object of affection -- the person ASKING the question!

Very astute and quite mature answer re: prince charming question. Just make sure you don't settle. That can be the kiss of death to a relationship -- when you know you're settling for something less. You'll always wonder....... what if? And doubt is the mortal enemy of stability, especially in relationships.

Thank you for the compliment! I thought that was nicely summed up as well

You like puzzles, don't you? Yes, discovering more and more about the person you've decided to spend a LOT of time with can be very nice. Just make sure that the person doesn't have a cemetary in their closet! (I mean as opposed to merely having one or two skeletons in the closet -- trust me, we all have some bones in there!)

A glimpse and a roadmap would be nice....... the same could be said about life! (and it's 3:20 am here)

And you ARE getting sentimental! Nice! I like it

Don't think I've read that book yet. "Seven Ages of Paris" and Harper's Magazine are waiting for me in bed. Well, that and the sweet slumbering embrace of Morpheus!

[MyraTrue]

ah, what a sorry creature I am. You have PM, btw, sorry it took me so long to notice.

So yes, I am sentimental. I believe I've got a good enough idea to know what I want and what I need. It might be half the reason I get so picky, or maybe, simply so stolidly forward directed when I know I'm still looking and its not in this isle.

And yes, if you can't be pleased, or even admit that there might be something to you of value for someone to like, then you're in trouble. And its going to be hard on everyone!

And yes, I'm very good at hedging. Its my life, these days. I can say a lot and say... why... nothing at all. But mean every last word.

I must say, I've actually found a few of those entire graveyard in the closet people. They are not good news, and bring an awful lot of trouble. Sure, I know I've got my bones in the closet all nice and set out, neat rows, underneath the winter coat and a couple of dresses and skirts. But they're there.

I figure God decided to see how many possible combinations he could make when he made people. From looks to personalities, and its really a great chance to choose, but its also an awful selection to have to sort. I guess over time, certain selections are more popular, even if we don't like them. (Or maybe because no one does, so no one takes them, and there's lots) and there's also a myth going around, about "THE woman" and "THE man" he was rumored to create.

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
ah, what a sorry creature I am. You have PM, btw, sorry it took me so long to notice.

So yes, I am sentimental. I believe I've got a good enough idea to know what I want and what I need. It might be half the reason I get so picky, or maybe, simply so stolidly forward directed when I know I'm still looking and its not in this isle.

And yes, if you can't be pleased, or even admit that there might be something to you of value for someone to like, then you're in trouble. And its going to be hard on everyone!

And yes, I'm very good at hedging. Its my life, these days. I can say a lot and say... why... nothing at all. But mean every last word.

I must say, I've actually found a few of those entire graveyard in the closet people. They are not good news, and bring an awful lot of trouble. Sure, I know I've got my bones in the closet all nice and set out, neat rows, underneath the winter coat and a couple of dresses and skirts. But they're there.

I figure God decided to see how many possible combinations he could make when he made people. From looks to personalities, and its really a great chance to choose, but its also an awful selection to have to sort. I guess over time, certain selections are more popular, even if we don't like them. (Or maybe because no one does, so no one takes them, and there's lots) and there's also a myth going around, about "THE woman" and "THE man" he was rumored to create.

Worry not about the PM. A response awaits your perusal.

Want/Need........ but are they the same for you? For others? Do people even know the difference? Heck, do they even know that there are two possibly competing principles here?!

Now I don't think you're picky. Just because you have certain standards that have to be met doesn't mean you're picky. It just means exactly that -- you have certain standards to be met, nothing more, nothing less. I also have certain standards to be met -- unfortunately for me, so do a lot of people!

Oh and unfortunately for the general gene pool, a lot of people obviously don't have any standards!

Hedging is good -- you get the benefits of making a choice but you also minimize the risk. The benefits may not be as large but at least the risk is minimized. Question is, are you the type that wants to minimize risk or the type that wants to maximize return on investment?

The graveyard people CAN be interesting though. But you're right, they can be dangerous. But as long as you realize the danger and are ok with it, then it's ok. I've met one or two where the risk was so great that I had to jump in my Chrysler (that's as big as a whale and it's about to set sail) and vamoose out of there!

Yes, that perfidious myth that has been the subject of many a heartache, movie, and country song. They don't exist. I mean that's an absolute -- there is no one PERSON that everyone will like. The ONE may exist but whoever or whatever that ONE may be is dependent on the person seeking. It's like a darned snowflake -- there's gazillions of them, mostly similar, but gazillions! You just have to hope that you find the right combination that fits YOUR list.

I had my list on my fridge but it fell off and the dog ate it.

Sometimes though I wonder about those who don't get chosen -- what happens to them? How do THEY feel about the whole game? (And it is a game after all.)

[Soldier]

And interesting note to begin with: As I read the comment about somebody who had as bad a day as yours, the song "Bad Day" (by Fuel) began playing. Eerily like when the perfect soundtrack song starts in a movie...

Now, I just flew back to the Academy, and the skies are grey and the air's getting colder, and nobody else is around yet, and the only sound out on the terazzo is the wind in open space and a crow sitting up on a lamppost. And I just had to say goodbye to my girlfriend again (it gets harder every time) this morning. So it's my turn to get sentimental.

I wish the best to both of you, Blue_Falcon and MyraTrue. There's not a day goes by that (I don't mean to brag) I don't thank God for what I have - I had a good friend, and then BAM out of the blue, she and I both broke up with our significant others and fell madly in love. She's got everything I was searching for - everything on my list, and she tells me I'm the same for her (though I know that's not quite right, because she also tells me I'm handsome, and that's a load of crap). I happen to be a firm believer in there being one specific one for each of us. Having read your posts, you both sound like great people - Myra, given other circumstances, I'd be quite attracted to you, and Blue_Falcon, I see no reason why you should still be single. It's sad to read your posts, and I pray you both find what you're looking for.

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by Soldier

I wish the best to both of you, Blue_Falcon and MyraTrue. There's not a day goes by that (I don't mean to brag) I don't thank God for what I have - I had a good friend, and then BAM out of the blue, she and I both broke up with our significant others and fell madly in love. She's got everything I was searching for - everything on my list, and she tells me I'm the same for her (though I know that's not quite right, because she also tells me I'm handsome, and that's a load of crap). I happen to be a firm believer in there being one specific one for each of us. Having read your posts, you both sound like great people - Myra, given other circumstances, I'd be quite attracted to you, and Blue_Falcon, I see no reason why you should still be single. It's sad to read your posts, and I pray you both find what you're looking for.

Thanks dude. And thanks for not saying that "Blue_Falcon, given other circumstances, I'd be quite attracted to you"! You're nice too dude ;-)

There's LOTS of reasons why I'm still single .... women have standards!

And you're very very lucky dude. Make sure you appreciate her for what she is and for what she gives you. And make sure that you give her all that she deserves. The love, the devotion, the admiration ....... all women deserve that from someone special.

Oh, and when you see her, kiss her for me.

By the way, I'm sure MyraTrue thanks you too

And don't be sad about our posts -- they just mean we like discussing such things. Be glad you found that special someone.

[Soldier]

Originally posted by blue_falcon
...make sure you appreciate her for what she is and for what she gives you. And make sure that you give her all that she deserves.

Oh, hell yes.

And I'll take any excuse I can get to kiss her. And when I run out of excuses, I just say "the hell with it" and kiss her anyway. So yes, I'll kiss her for you in about two weeks.

[MyraTrue]

Soldier,

why thank you!

And she isn't lying to you when she tells you you're handsome. Maybe you don't fit media's idea, but she's in love with you, and that makes you the best looking person in this world (no matter if you think its true or not). And I'm glad you've got someone you love that much, and Christmas is coming!

As to all those posts, I'm glad to know there are people out there who think like this. Don't be sad for those posts... say that I've had my faith restored. I'll find someone. (And if I don't, I'll enjoy life all the way through, and gleefully sit on my front porch with a shotgun in my rocker. Just because I can.)

It just soemtimes feels like those good people are so few and few between these days. Or, "All the good ones are taken." I shall see...

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
Soldier,

why thank you!

And she isn't lying to you when she tells you you're handsome. Maybe you don't fit media's idea, but she's in love with you, and that makes you the best looking person in this world (no matter if you think its true or not). And I'm glad you've got someone you love that much, and Christmas is coming!

As to all those posts, I'm glad to know there are people out there who think like this. Don't be sad for those posts... say that I've had my faith restored. I'll find someone. (And if I don't, I'll enjoy life all the way through, and gleefully sit on my front porch with a shotgun in my rocker. Just because I can.)

It just soemtimes feels like those good people are so few and few between these days. Or, "All the good ones are taken." I shall see...

Yes -- those people seem to be fewer and fewer........ few and far in between. Or at least those who PROFESS such views are few and far in between. But then, can you blame society? Given the superficiality engendered by the media, the sheer bombardment of sickening messages in print, TV, Internet....... ok ok ....... I know this is for the rant thread!

And yes, there are still people who think like this. It's a minority but they're out there!

All the good ones are taken? I've heard that before. I think it's merely a matter of maybe redefining "good"! Kind of like what you said about Soldier -- he may not be the media's idea of The Guy but his girlfriend wants him for who and what he is and that's what really matters, doesn't it?

In the end, that's all that REALLY matters, right?

[MyraTrue]

True, true that.

And I know that I'm not looking for a face, I'm looking for a person. I just wonder where they are, those people that I would find myself happy with. It often feels as if I'm surrounded by callow people, with nothing I want on their minds.

But I've got hope. Lots of it. I could build myself a road paved in hope to any ol' place I'd like. I've got plenty to spare.

And I fence... what else do I need?

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
True, true that.

And I know that I'm not looking for a face, I'm looking for a person. I just wonder where they are, those people that I would find myself happy with. It often feels as if I'm surrounded by callow people, with nothing I want on their minds.

But I've got hope. Lots of it. I could build myself a road paved in hope to any ol' place I'd like. I've got plenty to spare.

And I fence... what else do I need?

Sounds like somthing I used to tell myself a few years ago -- that I wasn't looking for a face but a person. But after a few incidents I found myself wondering if I really WAS looking for a person and not a face. I questioned myself for a while and I noticed that, regardless of what I told myself at the time, I really WAS looking for a face! Only when I realized what I was doing did I question my choices (or lack thereof).

Now, I'm not using ANY criteria except that of whether I get along with them. And, unfortunately, I seem to get along with a LOT of women! So now, instead of rejecting them as before, there's too many of them.

But yes -- looking inside others to see if they have what you're looking for is a very very good idea. But one must never discount the biological needs. I mean you could meet the perfect guy (i.e. great personality, nice, etc., etc.) but he's as homely as uh.......Michael Jackson (no no -- he's just weird!), ok Carrot Top combined with Mister Ed (yes, the horse), there might be issues. After all, you'll have to look at that mug day in and day out!

I'm not saying that one should judge others solely by their appearance but, from what I've seen, people do factor appearance in the equation. It's just a question of how much weight is given to appearances. Some people place 75-90% on appearance, others place 20-30% on appearances. Just be realistic and realize that it DOES play a part in the equation.

It may be partly biological. After all, if you want kids, you do want kids that look nice, don't you? Soldier may not be the media's image of THE GUY but I'm sure he's not hideous and he's fit, and nice, etc., etc.

Yes, this may come as a bit of a shock but I'm just saying that some acknowledgement of the role of appearances is required because it DOES play a role. And the more aware we are that it does play a role, the better off we are as we can make more informed decisions.

N'est ce pas?

(And yes -- the mind, I think, should be more important in the equation than looks. The looks can go but the mind only gets better. We hope )

[MyraTrue]

Ahh... that question of looks. But how do you know that *I* wouldn't automatically doom my children from the start? I could look like Mr Ed myself! Though I don't think its really an issue.

So, yes, looks play some part. But at the same time, most of us can point out something in our features that feels like a flaw to us.

Maybe I'm odd, but when I think of people, the features they have are dictated by the personality I know they've got. I learned early on that some of the best looking kids around were some of the meanest. To me, they became ugly. And some of those homely kids were nice to look at, simply because they WERE nice.

I wont debate that looks can count. To some extent. I just haven't the faintest what that extent is, but I think its tempered by a perception based on persona as well.

So I never said I make sense! I figure my selection criteria is a lot like yours then- I get along, I have fun, I enjoy their company. And we go from there.

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
Ahh... that question of looks. But how do you know that *I* wouldn't automatically doom my children from the start? I could look like Mr Ed myself! Though I don't think its really an issue.

So, yes, looks play some part. But at the same time, most of us can point out something in our features that feels like a flaw to us.

Maybe I'm odd, but when I think of people, the features they have are dictated by the personality I know they've got. I learned early on that some of the best looking kids around were some of the meanest. To me, they became ugly. And some of those homely kids were nice to look at, simply because they WERE nice.

I wont debate that looks can count. To some extent. I just haven't the faintest what that extent is, but I think its tempered by a perception based on persona as well.

So I never said I make sense! I figure my selection criteria is a lot like yours then- I get along, I have fun, I enjoy their company. And we go from there.

Very true! We could ALL look like Mr Ed's offspring! (Or is that honor reserved only for the British royals?) Now if we could have PICTURES on this board..........

As for the flaws ......... yes, we all have things that we think are flaws. But at the same time, it's how people see those things that kind of count when they are looking at us! You may have a mole that you think makes you hideous but others could think it's a beauty mark a la Cindy Crawford! (No, I don't think she fences... more's the pity!)

I agree. Some of the best looking people can be the nastiest, meanest people on earth. Why? Because they don't have to be nice. Generally I think it's like a equation :

physical attractiveness + niceness = constant

So, if physical attractiveness is high, then niceness is low. And if niceness is high, then attractiveness is low.

And yes -- looks count. But it looks like it doesn't count all that high for you -- GOOD! Shallowness was never a very endearing quality...... unless you were shallow yourself

Perception is ALL that counts. Reality doesn't exist -- reality is what we perceive.

What? I have criteria? I have standards?!?! Obviously you haven't seen some of the people I hang out with!

[Army Fencer]

Originally posted by blue_falcon
physical attractiveness + niceness = constant

I don't know about that one, Falcon. If that's the rule, I know plenty of exceptions.

[blue_falcon]

Originally posted by Army Fencer
I don't know about that one, Falcon. If that's the rule, I know plenty of exceptions.

Hey, it ain't a hard and fast rule. There are exceptions that tend to prove the generality

Sorry -- just some of my cynicism shining through!

[Soldier]

Originally posted by Army Fencer
I don't know about that one, Falcon. If that's the rule, I know plenty of exceptions.

My own girlfriend.



Myra, Blue, you guys seriously need to get together.