Uhlmann FIE Jacket Material

[Talyn]

Does anyone know what Uhlmann FIE 'World Cup' jackets are made out of?

I just want to know because if it's kevlar I won't dry it in the sun.

[MyraTrue]

see... now I was thinking it was Kevlar, but people have been telling me its ballistic nylon anymore these days. Beats me! I've got a WC jacket too... But I doubt it will disintegrate.

I know they do say avoid prolonged exposure to light on the label of the WC jackets (even the new ones). It can't be ALL that bad... you know "oh no! Close the door!" as every fencer within range of the incoming light has their whites incinerate of just plain ol' fall to bits. I can see the headlines now- "FIE makes new 'underclothing' regulation after recent worldcup jackets and knickers fiasco"

The jackets will dry in about a day if you just hang them up to dry somewhere inside. The terrycloth gets a little crunchy when it dries, but after you wear it once, its back to normal.

My'

[Peach]

Sunlight is hard on nylon. It destroys just about anything, actually--that's why museums these days are so dark, to protect the artwork from sunlight (I used to work in a painting conservation department of museum). But the uniforms not made of kevlar any more.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

SO is it just made out of Nylon?

[Feanor]

Originally posted by KShan5[PrFC]
SO is it just made out of Nylon?

Sunlight is hard on just about anything as Peach was saying... In some galleries flash photography is even forbidden because that amount of light has a degenerative effect on paintings and tapestries...

When you say "Nylon" I think that is just a generic trade-name way people have come to refer to synthetic fibers, like when people say "Q-tips" instead of cotton swabs, or "Kleenex" instead of facial tissue...

Nylon and Ballistic nylon are two different things but Ballistic Nylon is just more specific, like Stainless Steel, or 440C, etc etc is used for "steel"

I think that the Ballistic Nylon material has some other material included like "Spectra" fibre which is a trade name for its more scientific sounding name...

I used to fly two and 4 line stunt kites and used line made out of spectra... It was amazing how strong the line was even when extremely thin, and negligable stretch (which is great for stunt kite line) If they make thick material woven from spectra I am not surprised that it stops bullets or prevents punctures, OR is very expensive! A 150' spool of spectra kite line was about 25$

So when they say "Ballistic Nylon", it is not the nylon they made windbreakers out of I wouldn't even be surprised if it had very little nylon in it at all...

Have a good one!

[downunder]

its 100% synthetic


have a look on ur label, if it hasn't rubbed off

its poly-somethingorother

[damianip]

Lately the material of choice for top equipment is ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene (UHMWP). Two trade names are Spectra and Dyneema.

Sometimes it's plated onto cotton or some wicking fabric. This stuff is much better for UV and salt resistance (used for sails lately) than Kevlar. There may be others out there, but this is pretty good stuff.

I can't remember my source for this. I have to track it down.

Paolo

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

As far as kevlar goes, if it'll stop a bullet, it'll stop a blade.

[MyraTrue]

I guess someone was telling me that the jevlar vests were (are) replaced every several years because the kevlar doesn't hold up that well. I guess the whites were pretty damn stiff too, a bit of a pain to fence in.

But I agree... its kevlar. Come on!

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

If youre really into safety, get a kevlar, and make a regular jacket "slip cover" for it.

[Talysen]

Well, the kevlar does have a shelf life on it. So even if you did everything you should, it would have to be replaced after a given period of time. Just normal wear will break down kevlar.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

So true, but so will a regular jacket.

[damianip]

I don't think anyone still makes fencing gear out of Kevlar. I'll have to check on that but I think most have moved on to other materials.

BTW, FWIW, Spectra is used to make bullet proof vests.

Paolo

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Can you make a fencing jacket out of spectra?

[downunder]

Originally posted by damianip
I don't think anyone still makes fencing gear out of Kevlar. I'll have to check on that but I think most have moved on to other materials.

BTW, FWIW, Spectra is used to make bullet proof vests.

Paolo

certainly none of the FIE stamped gear

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

So its all made of that heavy duty cotton/canvas stuff?

[Feanor]

Originally posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!
As far as kevlar goes, if it'll stop a bullet, it'll stop a blade.

This is absolutely untrue... Bullet proof vests (unless they are armor plated as in flak vests) stop bullets because they dissipate the bullet's energy in a wider area as the bullet deforms (mushrooms)...

But a "soft" vest (one that does not include an armor plate and ones that police officers most routinely wear) will not stop a knife or other sharp implement that does not deform...

Please don't tell me that I don't know what I am talking about because I have been shot at close range by a .357 while wearing a second chance soft vest (broke 2 ribs) and personally know a fellow who was shot by an arrow at 50yds in the shoulder area by a distraught person where the arrow had a hunting broadhead tip and fully punctured the vest he was wearing (and ended his career in law enforcement)... That is why, at close range, many officers would much rather face a gang banger with a pistol, than a person wielding a combat knife who knew how to use it...

The FIE 800n protection clothing we wear for fencing is not absolute proof against a sharp break, it is just a very very good way to stack the cards in your favor should you face the worst situation. A broken fencing weapon that was not sharp would have to have ALOT of pressure applied to penetrate 800N, but if the break was ice-pick sharp, things would be iffy and still very dangerous...

Oh, and as a bit of extra information, the armor piercing KTW style teflon coated bullets (so called cop killer bullets) penetrate vests not because of the teflon coating, but because the bullets are made of a very hard metal that does not deform on impact, thus the vest cannot dissipate the energy thru deformation of the round (they are essentially light armor piercing ammunition) the teflon coating is to protect the rifling of the weapon's barrel against the hard material of the bullet.

Have a good one!

[Feanor]

Originally posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!
So true, but so will a regular jacket.

Kevlar when new, is significantly better protection than non-kevlar alternatives (spectra), but the non-kevlar alternatives last far FAR longer under the same use losing little of their protective characteristics, the kevlar degrading to the point where it is far less protection.

That is primarily why no jackets (fencing or Bullet resistant vests) are made from kevlar presently...

Have a good one!

[downunder]

Originally posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!
So its all made of that heavy duty cotton/canvas stuff?

according to this thread its

"polyethylene (UHMWP). Two trade names are Spectra and Dyneema."

i know the polyethylene stuff is right, dunno about the trade names

[Inquartata]

Second Chance is having a big problem right now with their vests made with Zylon, as it seems that it deteriorates much faster than intially believed due to heat and light exposure. Kevlar is at least a known quantity with a long history of use.

I understand that vests ARE tested against an icepick-type puncture weapon, but most companies do not make any claims that their bullet-resistant body armor is also puncture-resistant. The only exception of which I can think is First Choice, which DOES advertise their vests as stab resistant.

In any event, if you really want complete protection get yourself some fine-linked welded or rivetted mail. THAT would make an impression on the armourers, I think! ( The only lames with a lifetime warranty! )