Re: Stripping out that pesky wire

Harold Buck writes:

>I usually take a pair of needlenose pliers, grab the wire with them, and
>roll the pliers along the blade so that the wire winds around the
>pliers. (If that doesn't make sense, ask me and I'll try to explain it
>better). The wire never seems to break that way.

Do you do any special preparation to remove the glue first?

In article <20031110100236.14963.00000716@mb-m14.aol.com>, jdzik@aol.com
(JDzik) writes:

>Can anyone give me the wisdom of experience on this? Is there any special
>trick to removing the old wire other than more experience and patience then I
>currently possess?

I use the pipe and acetone myself because I do large batches of blades from
time to time.

I have given this advice before but will repeat.

Don't overlook Nail Polish Remover to soften and remove old glue. It just takes
longer. But if you are a fencer and just rewiring your own blades, it is
practical. Make sure it is the type of NPR that does include acetone.

Saturate the channel with the NPR, I use a Q-tip. Then go watch television and
repeat five minutes later. Do this about 10 times and it should soften the glue
enough to pull the wire out without breaking. It should also make it much
easier to get the glue out.

It just takes patience, which fencers are known to have in abundance.

If you use superglue, there is superglue remover which should work also.

A very useful tool for cleaning out both Foil and Epee blades is an old hack
saw blade with the "set" of the teeth ground down. It just fits into the foil
blade and the teath help pull out the wire and glue. It is safer than using a
sharp blade as a groove scraper. The back of the blade works well in pushing a
Foil wire down into the groove.

Bill Hall

In article <20031110110354.13006.00000561@mb-m14.aol.com>,
jdzik@aol.com (JDzik) wrote:

> Harold Buck writes:
>
> >I usually take a pair of needlenose pliers, grab the wire with them, and
> >roll the pliers along the blade so that the wire winds around the
> >pliers. (If that doesn't make sense, ask me and I'll try to explain it
> >better). The wire never seems to break that way.
>
> Do you do any special preparation to remove the glue first?


Nope. I don't like to use a lot of acetone. The Dremmel seems to work
fine.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Just an addition, but the acetone in a tube trick as Phil posted works
best for me. You pull out the wire whole and then wipe the glue out as well
with a rag and whatever scraper you have around. I use super glue simply
because it dries fast and can be redone on the strip easily. But if you use the
dremmel approach take care not to heat the blade. It is too easy to heat
the weak end of the blade and damage the temper there.

Another comment I've had from the fellows at American fencing supply is
that they refuse to use acetone or super glue any more. Both have
poisonous attributes. And if you're working in bulk, i.e. making up
50 or so weapons at a time this is probably an issue. Don't think most
of us do numbers that large and so it is less of a concern. As I
indicated I use both and the super glue can be right noxious.

J.

JDzik wrote:
> I am new to this whole armory thing, and have started rewiring my own foils.
> I'm finding that the most difficult part of the job is removing the old wire.
> Invariably, I get some of the wire out and then it breaks, leaving me cursing
> and trying to scrape out a bit of wire end so that I can start the whole
> process again.
>
> Can anyone give me the wisdom of experience on this? Is there any special
> trick to removing the old wire other than more experience and patience then I
> currently possess?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Dzikiewicz

Just to emphasize my mention in my first post, do note that many
solvents, specifically acetone in this case, are quite nasty
chemicals. Acetone is bad to breathe, very flammable, can
dissolve or damage many useful things (like household plumbing!)
as well as unwanted glue, and is hazardous waste not to be poured
down a drain even before you dissolve various glues and coatings
from sword wires into it.

Also many glues do nasty things when you heat them up, as Mr.
Jefferies notes can happen with a Dremel cutoff wheel. And you
can get things very hot indeed very quickly with a high-speed
cutoff wheel--check the metal after you cut a screw or something,
that blue coloration means the temper is gone. The metal at the
skinny end of a sword is not a good place for this to happen!

Jonathan Jefferies wrote:
> Just an addition, but the acetone in a tube trick as Phil posted works
> best for me. You pull out the wire whole and then wipe the glue out as well
> with a rag and whatever scraper you have around. I use super glue simply
> because it dries fast and can be redone on the strip easily. But if you
> use the
> dremmel approach take care not to heat the blade. It is too easy to heat
> the weak end of the blade and damage the temper there.
>
> Another comment I've had from the fellows at American fencing supply is
> that they refuse to use acetone or super glue any more. Both have
> poisonous attributes.

{snip}

Jonathan Jefferies writes:

>Another comment I've had from the fellows at American fencing supply is
>that they refuse to use acetone or super glue any more.

Do you know what they use as alternatives?

(If I'm going to poison myself by doing a re-wire, suddenly paying the club
armorer to do it for me sounds like a real deal!)

Well, you certainly *can* poison yourself using glues and
solvents, but you aren't likely to if you do it once in a while
and take some care. (Nail polish remover is basically acetone
with stuff to make it smell nice, and lots of people have been
using it for lots of years with no worse complaints than dry nails.)

OTOH, these days I usually pay someone else to re-wire blades,
too. Been there, done that, don't really want it any more...but
I've had occasion to be glad I know how, when I had improvise
things to to fix a wire coming out of a groove!

As for alternatives, some people swear by "fletch tite", a glue
designed to stick feathers onto arrows, has to remain flexible
because arrows bend and whip as they launch so it works for wires
on blades too. It still contains poisonous solvents, just
different ones than cyano-acrylates. I use super-glue because it
dries faster, and try not to inhale around it.

JDzik wrote:

> Jonathan Jefferies writes:
>
>
>>Another comment I've had from the fellows at American fencing supply is
>>that they refuse to use acetone or super glue any more.
>
>
> Do you know what they use as alternatives?
>
> (If I'm going to poison myself by doing a re-wire, suddenly paying the club
> armorer to do it for me sounds like a real deal!)

>
>>Another comment I've had from the fellows at American fencing supply is
>>that they refuse to use acetone or super glue any more.
>
>Do you know what they use as alternatives?
>
>(If I'm going to poison myself by doing a re-wire, suddenly paying the club
>armorer to do it for me sounds like a real deal!)
>
>
>
Being club armorer, I appreciate your sentiments... : )

I use acetone, but I've been wearing latex gloves, since I found out how toxic
it is. I keep the acetone pipe on my porch... not indoors.

I use a Dremel for a lot of things, but not for cleaning blades. Nothing beats
acetone... it does the work.

I keep a couple of tubes of super glue around for quick fixes, but I never use
it for re-wiring unless someone specifcally asks for it. I like fletching glue
for non-maraging blades and Duco-cement for maraging blades.

Debbie B.

I tried this way.. but ive another way that works better for me.

Walmart sells acetone for 2.99 a bottle.

also, get long copper toob and end cap and duct tape it on. Pour
acetone into toob and put blades in.

1/2 hr later. VOILA! wire pops out on its own.

Use rubber gloves for this as acetone is a bit carcinogenic.

El Magno!

Magni




Harold Buck <no_one_knows@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<no_one_knows-81EF6B.09595410112003@comcast.ash.giganews.com>...
> In article <20031110100236.14963.00000716@mb-m14.aol.com>,
> jdzik@aol.com (JDzik) wrote:
>
> > I am new to this whole armory thing, and have started rewiring my own foils.
> > I'm finding that the most difficult part of the job is removing the old wire.
> > Invariably, I get some of the wire out and then it breaks, leaving me cursing
> > and trying to scrape out a bit of wire end so that I can start the whole
> > process again.
> >
> > Can anyone give me the wisdom of experience on this? Is there any special
> > trick to removing the old wire other than more experience and patience then I
> > currently possess?
>
>
> I usually take a pair of needlenose pliers, grab the wire with them, and
> roll the pliers along the blade so that the wire winds around the
> pliers. (If that doesn't make sense, ask me and I'll try to explain it
> better). The wire never seems to break that way.
>
> Then I use a Dremmel to clean out the groove. If you search for
> "Dremmel" in rec.sport.fencing in Google Groups, you'll probably find
> the thread from about a year ago where I found out all the tips for
> using a Dremmel to clean blades. (Most important lesson: full face
> shield!)
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

In article <20031110161150.19613.00000844@mb-m01.aol.com>,
fencer91162@aol.com (Fencer91162) wrote:

>
> I use acetone, but I've been wearing latex gloves, since I found out how toxic
> it is. I keep the acetone pipe on my porch... not indoors.
>


When I've used acetone, I've used a mask with filters designed for use
when working with solvents. It was made by 3M; I don't recall the exact
model, but they have them at home depot. I also try to work in the
garage with the door open if it isn't to cold. In any case, I at least
make sure to keep some fans running to keep the air circulating.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

I don't know the specific brand, but believe it to be one of the
common contact glues. Cementit is one that comes to mind. But
none of them seem to go down as easily as super glue.

J.

JDzik wrote:
> Jonathan Jefferies writes:
>
>
>>Another comment I've had from the fellows at American fencing supply is
>>that they refuse to use acetone or super glue any more.
>
>
> Do you know what they use as alternatives?
>
> (If I'm going to poison myself by doing a re-wire, suddenly paying the club
> armorer to do it for me sounds like a real deal!)

On 10 Nov 2003 13:28:12 -0800, michael_lichtstrom@yahoo.com (magni)
wrote:

> Use rubber gloves for this as acetone is a bit carcinogenic.

Acetone is not listed as a carcinogen by the International Agency for
Research on Cancer, the (US) National Toxicology Program, or the (US)
Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

Rubber gloves are still a good idea, as it's a skin irritant.

-Mark-

I've recently taken to re-rolling my own, and, having read all the
preferences from this group back to 1994 - groups.google.com is such a
wonderful resource - I went with Crazy Glue. I find that the gel
version works a treat - tension the blade and no matter what angle
it's held at this stuff goes where you want it and no further.

I'm another acetone user too. I keep the tube in the garage, leave it
to soak overnight, and usually have the door open for insertions and
extractions. The tube is maybe three inches longer than the blade, and
I wrap a short length of wire around the tang before I drop the blade
in, such that when I remove the cap after soaking, the wire's right
there for the plucking.

Speaking of wire, it's quite easy to rebuild the broken ones. I bought
a roll of 28-gauge enamelled wire from a local electronics supply
store (not Radio Shack, as they don't seem to do components and stuff
any more) and simply unsolder the contact plate from the old wire,
scrape the last two millimeters of the new wire bare, and resolder.
The roll cost $20 Canadian, and I reckon there's enough for around 140
foil rewirings. Only thing you need to watch out for is that, if the
old wire breaks off right at the hexagonal contact plate, it can be a
tricky business getting the stump of the old wire out of the solder,
and there's only room in the socket for one wire. Save fifteen minutes
and a week's supply of curses by not breaking the wire when you
unscrew the barrel.

Robert Smith

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:21:50 -0800, Jonathan Jefferies
<jonathanjefferies@alamedanet.net> wrote:

>I don't know the specific brand, but believe it to be one of the
>common contact glues. Cementit is one that comes to mind. But
>none of them seem to go down as easily as super glue.
>
>J.
>
>JDzik wrote:
>> Jonathan Jefferies writes:
>>
>>
>>>Another comment I've had from the fellows at American fencing supply is
>>>that they refuse to use acetone or super glue any more.
>>
>>
>> Do you know what they use as alternatives?
>>
>> (If I'm going to poison myself by doing a re-wire, suddenly paying the club
>> armorer to do it for me sounds like a real deal!)

Spiggy Topes wrote:

> Only thing you need to watch out for is that, if the
> old wire breaks off right at the hexagonal contact plate, it can be a
> tricky business getting the stump of the old wire out of the solder,
> and there's only room in the socket for one wire. Save fifteen minutes
> and a week's supply of curses by not breaking the wire when you
> unscrew the barrel.
>

The smallest sized Dremel tool engraving bit is perfect for that situation-- just
the right size to cleanly drill out the old wire and solder.

-Dave

In article <edv4rvkvmvj8fksne75eaftijgrruj7pke@4ax.com>,
Spiggy Topes <noway@jose.ca> wrote:

> I've recently taken to re-rolling my own, and, having read all the
> preferences from this group back to 1994 - groups.google.com is such a
> wonderful resource

Far out, man! Rolling your own is the way to go!

- I went with Crazy Glue. I find that the gel
> version works a treat -

Whoa! Does smoking that stuff give you a better buzz?

> tension the blade and no matter what angle
> it's held at this stuff goes where you want it and no further.
>

"Blade" must be local slang. We call them "doobies."

> I'm another acetone user too. I keep the tube in the garage, leave it
> to soak overnight, and usually have the door open for insertions and
> extractions.

We put water in our bongs. Where do you live, dude?

> The tube is maybe three inches longer than the blade, and
> I wrap a short length of wire around the tang before I drop the blade
> in, such that when I remove the cap after soaking, the wire's right
> there for the plucking.

Isn't that, like, the stuff astronauts drink for breakfast?

>
> Robert Smith
>

Hey, man, will there be any more Cure albums coming out?


--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Spiggy TOKES!!!!


What is a spiggy anyways....yet another part of drug culture which
this fencer is blissfully ignorant of? LOL

Magni: son of thor, inheritor of mjolnir

Harold Buck <no_one_knows@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<no_one_knows-A87770.06161713112003@comcast.ash.giganews.com>...
> In article <edv4rvkvmvj8fksne75eaftijgrruj7pke@4ax.com>,
> Spiggy Topes <noway@jose.ca> wrote:
>
> > I've recently taken to re-rolling my own, and, having read all the
> > preferences from this group back to 1994 - groups.google.com is such a
> > wonderful resource
>
> Far out, man! Rolling your own is the way to go!
>
> - I went with Crazy Glue. I find that the gel
> > version works a treat -
>
> Whoa! Does smoking that stuff give you a better buzz?
>
> > tension the blade and no matter what angle
> > it's held at this stuff goes where you want it and no further.
> >
>
> "Blade" must be local slang. We call them "doobies."
>
> > I'm another acetone user too. I keep the tube in the garage, leave it
> > to soak overnight, and usually have the door open for insertions and
> > extractions.
>
> We put water in our bongs. Where do you live, dude?
>
> > The tube is maybe three inches longer than the blade, and
> > I wrap a short length of wire around the tang before I drop the blade
> > in, such that when I remove the cap after soaking, the wire's right
> > there for the plucking.
>
> Isn't that, like, the stuff astronauts drink for breakfast?
>
> >
> > Robert Smith
> >
>
> Hey, man, will there be any more Cure albums coming out?
>
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson