Best way to mount the blade wire.

[skit]

Can somebody tell me the best possible way to mount the blade wire without worrying that it may come out at any time during the fight?

[rsy]

Skit- If you are asking about a foil, here is a web site with directions and related information. Wiring instructions . Make sure ALL of the old glue is removed before re-wiring.

-r

[skit]

Yer, I mean foil. I think the most difficult part is to spread the glue evenly along the groove. Sometimes there are places that the glue cannot reach and hence, unable to hold the wire securely within the groove. I wonder if there is any suitable tool (for the injection of glue) that can help.

The artilce however, is really informative.

[DHCJr]

I agree the article is very informative. I would add one thing, your thumb. After top glueing, making sure you are not gluing the top or bottom 1/4", I run my thumb down the blade pushing the glue down into the groove.

This does three things. First, the glue dries more evenly, second I make sure the glue is down the whole length and third there is no glue outside the groove, which would be illegal. A few hours later, I will use an exacto to clean off the exacto.

I prefer Cementit, but everyone has their favorite glue. The one glue I would avoid is Elmer's or similar. They seem to set up a dialetric potential and there is leakage through any cloth insulation, so this would be the most problem with French type wire (Double cloth insulation).

[danp]

I used Cementit for the first time, and a big benefit is that it gives time to properly set the wire. The applicator tip is a little longer and allows for more accurate application of the glue into the groove, plus it washes off the hands more easily if you use your fingers to push it in.

Many people prefer Cyanoacrylite (CA, or Super Glue more commonly) and say that Cementit doesn't hold the wire over time - personally, this stuff seems messy and sets too quickly. If it gets on your fingers, it's pretty nasty..

I'd be curious to know what method people use to apply CA, and what you prefer?

Regards,
-Dan

Originally posted by DHCJr

I prefer Cementit, but everyone has their favorite glue. The one glue I would avoid is Elmer's or similar. They seem to set up a dialetric potential and there is leakage through any cloth insulation, so this would be the most problem with French type wire (Double cloth insulation).

[rsy]

Originally posted by danp
I'd be curious to know what method people use to apply CA, and what you prefer?

dan- I use both. I use a Duco-like glue first. I put a bead on my thumb and forefinger & run it down the wire so that it is lightly coated with glue. I then set the wire into the groove. I have plenty of time to set it in correctly, pull it taut, tape off the end to the tang, and then bend the blade. Once the wire is in and the blade is bent, I overglue it lightly with a CA glue, either Zap CA or Super Glue. Be careful, a little goes a long way. I put just enough in to let it run down the wire making sure it doesn't get into the tip or all the way to the end of the groove. I leave enough of the wire free to let the spagetti slide under the guard. I let it dry for a few hours and then clean up any excess. The downside is that a good long soak of several hours in acetone is needed to clean the glue out before re-wiring.
-r

[CarlKnoch]

I use superglue, and superglue gel. Pull the wire into the groove while you have the blade bent. You'll need a small screwdriver (jewelers) that is dull at the tip to use to get the wire all the way in as you glue. I use my thumbnail as it's long for just this reason. I start at the tip with a bit of the gel (to stop any of the liquid glue from running into the tip and messing wih the cup) and then use the normal to run the wire. When I get near the end by the tang I stop and make sure that the wire is all the way into the groove before using gel at the base to be sure that the liquid doesn't run down any further than that.

Just be careful that you don't use too much as the glue will run down the groove on it's own, and when you stop glueing you can expect the glue to finish an extra 1/2 to 1 inch of groove as it slowly runs down.

Dries in 10 minutes and ready to put in the tip and add the guard and grip. You're fencing in less than 20 minutes with it. If you are good at it, 10 minutes is the entire project.

When removing, get a 36' metal pipe, with one end capped. The pipe should be just large enough to accept the width of an epee blade so the blade can go all the way into the pipe with the tip in the bottom that is sealed. Stick an epee you want cleaned off into the pipe and then fill to near the top with acetone which can be bought at a local paint or hardware store in the thinner aisle. Leave for 10 minutes and then pull out the blade, stripping the wire with a pull, and if there remains any other glue residue it can be removed with a razor knife. (Box cutter) Careful with the acetone as it will cause problems with your skin if you're really sensative. I've never had a problem with it.

C

[danp]

I like the idea of using both glues, thick and thin. I've had issues with the thin CA overflowing onto (or worse into) the tip, but this solves it. Thanks for the tip.

The real win was the acetone bath-in-the-pipe trick though. I pulled my CA glued foil blade out after soaking it last night and it's *completely* shiny and clean. The wire nearly fell out on it's own.

Of course, now I have a pipe full of acetone. Ideas that came to mind:

* Worlds largest container of slug repellent

* Aftershave for those frequent trips to the truck stop diner.

* Taking the term "neat" martini to a new level.

* Keep it around for when I CA glue myself to the furniture.

Yeah, that last one probably holds up best.

-Dan

[neevel]

I use Zap CA (the one with the least viscosity) as my primary glue for foils. I prefer to use a thicker CA for epees.

The thinness of Zap CA makes it unnecessary to bottom-glue, as the glue will easily flow around and beneath the wire in the groove of the foil blade. My gluing method for foils is as follows:

Once the barrel is on and the contact seated, I bend the blade slightly in a chain jig. I run the wire down the groove and, while gently tugging on it to keep it seated taut in the groove, tape the wire securely to the tang. I then adjust the jig to bend the blade more. After a final check to make sure the wire's correctly in place and secure, it's time to glue.

Holding the blade and jig so that the point is angled upwards, I place a small drop of Zap CA just below the barrel and let it run downwards for a few seconds. I then invert the blade and jig so that it is bowed upwards, with both the point and tang higher than the center of the blade, and hold it that way for a 10-15 seconds to allow the glue to cure. Doing this ensures that any excess glue will gather at the center of the blade, rather than either running into the point or glueing the wire to the tang.

I then turn the blade back upright, this time holding it so that the tang is angled upwards, and repeat the same process with a drop of glue placed right below the widened part of the groove by the tang. By doing the ends of the blade first, I have now given myself some room for error when I glue the rest of the blade to avoid getting glue in the point or on the tang. The rest of the blade can then be done in one or two iterations of the same process. This takes me about 3-4 minutes from start to finish if I'm being careful.

If time's not pressing, I'll usually let the blade hang bowed upwards for 10-15 minutes just to allow the CA to completely cure. Zap CA cures fast enough for the blade to be useable pretty much immediately after wiring.

If you have thoroughly cleaned the groove before starting, you will need surprisingly little Zap CA to glue the wire. If and when it is necessary to rewire, you may very well be able to just "roll" the old wire out of the groove with a pair of needle-nose pliers, so long as you didn't lay down too much glue.

As Donald noted, choice of glue is pretty much a "religious preference" issue amongst armorers. Getting that groove thoroughly clean before wiring is far more critical than the particular glue or gluing technique used.

-Dave

[skit]

Thanks for sharing the valuable experience. But the discussion has almost become the "the best glue" to mount the blade wire!

I think the most irritating part of mounting the wire is that after completing the job in a few days, you find that small curve of wire has protruded from the groove.

When you bent the blade, the wire goes in. But it comes out again once the blade is straightened. I have tried apply some sort of "super-glue" which reults in hardening the wire and make it vulnerable to early brokage.

See if you also have such similar frustrating experience!

[DHCJr]

Yes, it has, but considering the question it had to. Because of your experience, you should consider one of the slower setting glues, since your problem appears to be making sure the glue is on the whole wire. You can use your thumb or something else to push the glue over the whole wire.

There are Armorers much better than me, who only use one of the 'Super Glue'. That is why I only said my preference was Cementit for me. I know of FIE blades that did not need to be rewire until they broke after 3 years, that I used Cementit on, but as been said before clean the blade thourghly. That is another reason peple have wires poping up.

To give a quick overview.
1) Make sure the blade is completely clean of ALL old glue and rust in the groove. If you don't the wire will pop up.
2) Pull the blade tightly down the blades. Depending on the type of wire, it does stretch. I have stretched the wire almost 3" using a french wire. If you don't the wire when it stretches when you are fencing will have to go somewhere when the blade staightens out.
3) Bow the blade! How much? How much do you bend the blade when you fence. That will tell you how much.

[skit]

That's it: Bow the blade as much as it is in the fight! What a marvellous advice. I bend the blade as a usual pratice but have never bent it as much as I did during the fight. Frankly speaking, I bent it a lot more!

I will definitely let it a try next time.