combination move

[Strytllr]

Some years ago, my first instructor taught us a move that he called a pris de fer. I cannot find a move by that name anywhere else and, knowing that he often likes to make up names, figure this might be one. Typically, he translated it as "the binding (taking) of the blade" or some such. The move is designed to proceed as follows.

Usually used against a strong-arm opponent, or one who has a tendency to extend and hold line of attack. Bring your blade against his on the six position. In as shallow of an arc as possible, cross over his blade and down to seven position, follow immediately with a lunge while keeping pressure on the opponent's blade. This should land you a nice binding attack to seven.

Is there another common name for this combination or have I just been looking in the wrong place for the one he gave?

[GGK]

What you describe sounds like a bind. Someone who has gone to Coaches College might call it a diagonal transfer.
I think that “Prise de fer” translates to “with the steel”
Some people use it as a catch all for many actions on the blade.
The most common usage for the term “Prise de fer” I’ve run across is the sweeping parry/beat catches the opponent’s blade, usually as they chase you down the strip, followed by an immediate hit.
Well that and the club called “Prise de fer” in Mass.

http://prisedefer.com/

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Pris de Fer is a move. It literally "means taking of the iron" i believe in french. It is a beat attack seesentially. Except you can slide up the blade. I've heard it called "au fer" also and also sometimes it is just called parry riposte.

[Bonehead]

Pris de Fer means literally "To take the the steel" (Correct me if I'm wrong, my french is horrible), and encompases 2 seperate sets of moves.

au fer, an attack on the blade and avec fer an attack with the blade.

so a beat on the blade is considered a type of prise de fer, as well as the situation you describe, more spefically the part in the situation where you take your opponents blade in six.

Once you have the blade, moving the blade from six to seven is called a bind, because you take the blade across 2 lines, (high outside to low inside). You can also bind from seven to six, four to eight, eight to four, and all the same ones only substituting prime, seconde, tierce and parry five (cent?).

another similar action is a croise (with some sort of french accent on there somewhere). Thats where you take the blade from a high line to a low line, or vise versa.

[OCTAVIA]

I didn't think it mattered which line you were in, maybe I'm thinking of a glide? I generally, in foil, go from an outside line to an inside line, horizontally.

[Alpha03]

its also a club

[Bonehead]

I don't understand what you mean octavia, Its impossible to take an engaged blade from an outside line to an inside one horiontally, unless I guess you mean using a change of engagement?

A bind is simply taking an engaged blade diagonally across two lines.

Sorry for my confusion

Whats also a club, Alpha?

[rory]

Bonehead is correct.

Pris de fer: taking the blade. Any motion where you engage or bind the blade is a pris de fer.

Attaque au fer: beat attack

Here in the UK many referees use the French terminology - this is very sensible, because at international levels *nothing else* but the French is used.

Surely coaches in the US should be teaching these terms to their fencers also?

[penguin]

Surely coaches in the US should be teaching these terms to their fencers also? [/b]

Exactly. A pris de fer is not exactly a really out there kind of move, or term.

Never has so much ignorance been spouted by so many, for so little purpose......

[Wizardly]

I think the problem lies in its frequent misuse. I've heard PdF used exclusively to in reference to beat attacks on a line, used exclusively for a vertical deflection, use for any deflection at all, or just for beats. It's not an outlandish to see an engagement, it's true, but I think for a lot of bad directors at the local level, it falls under the heading of "big french term i'll use 'cause i don't know the right term and nobody'll know the difference."

"It's called a parry, moron."
"Yellow card."

[Gav]

I can't believe that a fencer has never heard the term prise de fer! In fact I am finding it difficult to believe that so much discussion has been given to this.

[Strytllr]

*laugh*

Right then. So I can conclude that, indeed, my instructor knew what he was talking about. well, that always makes me happier.

And, just for argument's sake, yes, he taught us a great many french names and such... unfortunately, my french sucks, so I really only ever had his word about what they meant to go on.

Oh, Gav, if you think too much discussion has been given to this... don't bother reading about the Fit Female Fencers then... *laugh*

Thanks everyone for clearing it up for me and restoring my confidence in an old instructor. When I had, briefly, spent some time in a classical fencing group, they looked at me odd and smirked every time I would use a term like pris de fer. It led me, unfortunately, to doubt what I thought I knew about fencing. It feels nice to know that I am not a complete fool.

Strytller

[Gav]

Oh, Gav, if you think too much discussion has been given to this... don't bother reading about the Fit Female Fencers then... *laugh*

I'm actually in favour of fff's - not enough of them around here.

[Nev]

Prise de fer...

blanket term for 3 seperate moves...all dealing with an opponent who is both threatenning your target area and has a straight arm (absolutely no point in trying these moves on someone whose arm is bent - I learnt the hard way )

1) opposition - not a beat, put a push, longer/sustained contact used to a) draw a parry b) force opponents blade aside

2) bind - semi-circular motion to take their point out of line; acheived by using your own guard and the forte (lower) part of your blade to trap theirs in 2 sides of a triangle. can be done vertically (hi-lo) or laterally(left-right)

3) envelopment - a bind that goes full circle, instead of just semi circle, can realy tie up your opponents blade, even disrobe them (yes that does mean that their clothes fall off! )

In all three cases the end of the action is usually a lunge or at least an attack, as they tend to deflect your opponents point and therefore give you right of way

Note: to counter this move either move out of distance before your blade has been taken, or use a ceding parry (no I can't explain a ceding parry right now, still haven't figured it out fully)

If you're interested in this kinda stuff, try

The Art and Science of Fencing
Nick Evangelista

Like Gav said, in the UK most coaches still use french terminology, and I've been lucky in that mine has a passion for classical fencing

Hope this helps,
Nev

[Wizardly]

::fights urge to let loose tongue-in-cheek remark about classical fencing::

opposition, bind, envelopment, ceding, we all know beat, what're the other 4 parries?

[a517dogg]

prise de fer is a club in the boston, massachusetts area.

Originally posted by Bonehead
I don't understand what you mean octavia, Its impossible to take an engaged blade from an outside line to an inside one horiontally, unless I guess you mean using a change of engagement?

A bind is simply taking an engaged blade diagonally across two lines.

Sorry for my confusion

Whats also a club, Alpha?