Originally posted by RogueNine Inq- How many soccer teams do you see wearing spiderman costumes?
Again, this is a TEAM sport. You don't play soccer as an individual. You don't make your own ecision on what to wear. Give a few of the more swollen heads in soccer that option and I do not doubt you would see some pretty bizarre stuff in rather short order...
But if there is enough of a call for it, studies should be done, and they can demostrate that it will/won't work.
My only quarrel with this is that any such studies will require money....money which will perforce have to come out of some other aspect of fencing. Who will be willing to sacrifice the budget of their own favorie use---be it elite support, athlete awards, junior develoment, coaching, armoring, FOC, veterans, or what have you---to study the viability of fashion in recruiting?
Originally posted by Inquartata And really, do you seriously believe that anyone ever has or will take up fencing just for the chance to wear a really cool colored outfit? Or that anyone who is truly drawn to fencing would be deterred by having to wear white?
True. I know I didn't come to the sport for that, and no matter what I will continue to fence.
But SPIDER-MAN COSTUMES?! Puh-lease!!! There will be rules. Yes, they will be subjective. Yes, people will ask for rule changes, etc.. But is it any different from now? You want white. Wear white. But shouldn't I have the freedom to paint my mask, without worrying that I'll have to change masks at a tourny? There will be rules. People will complain. Does it matter? The FIE really don't give a damn for complaints now anyway. So they shred more letters a week, big deal. The ref will be given a set of rules to go by for color, and it will be subject to interpretation. No different from now. You know it's going to happen anyway, so why not start going over rough drafts for rules now? Why not start with having team colors and masks, and when (that's right WHEN) it works, we work for personal color rules. The point is, this WILL happen. There will be problems. But they can be worked out. And by the by, having color will not bring more people to the sport in the sense you were saying. But rather, as icing on the cake. A gift with wrapping instead of plain brown paper. It helps.
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And if you want a good example of how to moderate color, look at Olympic Wrestling. Now here is an individual sport that has a required dress but the color of it is optional. You want a Neon pink outfit, be my guest. You will have to deal with being laughed at all the time. My current team/club fencing in white jacket and black pants, none of have nickers and guess what, all we have heard from anyone at any tourney we've gone to is how good it looks, and how cool it is that our team has a way to set ourselves apart. Allowing teams or idividuals to do things like this will not ruin the sport. Where will we draw the line? No idea, surely before spiderman or batman costumes.
Is it possible to make a poll here to see how many
people really HATE the white uniform?
I myself really have no problem with it. I can find other ways and other places to express my individuality and I am sure everybody else can too. Don't get me wrong, I am all for having team-colors.
It would be nice to have a couple of stripes and maybe a team-emblem or whatever so that you can see who belongs to which team. I think this should be allowed. It has a reason. (Other than expressing oneself.)
But I don't make the rules.
A lot of nice points have been made on both sides of the argument but I am curious to see what people actually have a problem with.
It's just a uniform....right? Why can't it be white?
Is it soooooo horrible? Honestly?
Yeah...I'm happy it's not up to me to make the rules,
because this is not an easy descision to make.
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Originally posted by Army Fencer
Well, what I am agitating for are team colors. Which would be controlled by the coach and not up to personal whims and tiger stripped masks.
Since you are talking about team colors. Does that mean someone making the National Team would need two sets of uniforms?
There is already requirements for the 'National Teams', which of course must be approved by FIE. Each fencer has to have added to his uniform (at their own expense, at least in the U.S.) the symbol to desinate they are on the U.S. team.
Considering the expense, I'm not sure many would want to spend on two uniforms. Suppose you do not stay with that club, are you willing to buy a third uniform or does that give the coach carte blanche?
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Originally posted by Event Horizon No, I do follow it on a constant basis. I do like to watch sports and catch it when I can.
So what changes have there been? Did they have an impact? Where they benificial to the sport? Is there any difference? Did you like the changes?
Well, I'm pretty sure the forward pass was soundly decried in football when it was introduced. Also the pass interference rule, which was a direct outgrowth of the aforementioned change.
Not to mention the three-point line in basketball.
Those are two obvious changes that come to mind immediately.
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There is one Big difference to the sports you mentioned and fencing. They are Team sports and fencing is an Individual sport. How do you tell, who you can give the ball to or whatever in a split second? How does the referees make sure each team has only the players they are allowed to have, if every one had the same color? You Must have the different colors or you would have a difficult time playing those sports.
With fencing, all you have to worry about it one person, he is your opponent and he is limited to a small area in front of you. There is reason for color in those sports you mentioned, the more distinct the better. Not so with fencing.
For those who saw the design of a partial flag that used to be put inside the U of USA on the back of the uniform, I thought was great. But then the Italians got very elaborate with theirs and now the FIE says, No, Nicht, etc.
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Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
Originally posted by DHCJr There is one Big difference to the sports you mentioned and fencing. They are Team sports and fencing is an Individual sport.
Wrestling? Skiing? Gymnastics? Swimming?
Quote:
Originally posted by DHCJr There is reason for color in those sports you mentioned, the more distinct the better. Not so with fencing.
There should be a distinction so we can tell who's fencing for what! It would make life so much easier.
Quote:
Originally posted by DHCJr
[N]ow the FIE says, No, Nicht, etc.
Just because they say no, does that necessarily mean it shouldn't be? Or that we shouldn't discuss it?
Quote:
Originally posted by DHCJr
Since you are talking about team colors. Does that mean someone making the National Team would need two sets of uniforms?
Perhaps I am. People already buy a second set when they upgrade to FIE.
Shoot, if I made a national team, I would be proud to wear national colors!
Sorry, it was I_luv_sabre that I meant about the sports football, hockey, basketball, etc. I apologize. I should have been more specific who I was speaking of.
The members of the U.S. Team already wear the national colors on their uniform.
But, what about those like me who are not part of club? What about those who can't afford a new set and want to change clubs?
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Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
I think in certain competitions national colors are required.
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Originally posted by DHCJr But, what about those like me who are not part of club? What about those who can't afford a new set and want to change clubs?
THEN WEAR WHITE!!! That's what I've been saying! I'm asking for the freedom to do so without worrying I'll be carded by a ref, or asked to change masks, etc. It isn't required. I just want the freedom. Tell me why, because some people want all-whites, should I be forced to comply with their taste in uniforms? I'm not trying to force them to wear color. I would just like the choice.
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Originally posted by lochinvar Well, I'm pretty sure the forward pass was soundly decried in football when it was introduced. Also the pass interference rule, which was a direct outgrowth of the aforementioned change.
Not to mention the three-point line in basketball.
Those are two obvious changes that come to mind immediately.
Those changes where awhile ago weren't they?
The three-point line in basketball applies on to college ball...right? And wasn't that several years ago?
Compared to the other sports, fencing changes a lot more. And comparing the two is alot like apples and oranges.
Originally posted by I_luv_saber THEN WEAR WHITE!!! That's what I've been saying! I'm asking for the freedom to do so without worrying I'll be carded by a ref, or asked to change masks, etc. It isn't required. I just want the freedom. Tell me why, because some people want all-whites, should I be forced to comply with their taste in uniforms? I'm not trying to force them to wear color. I would just like the choice.
But you can have color. Do you wear any color at all? I think they make color lame's for Sabre now. If not, I'm sure in due time.
Alright, how bout this. Instead of the defending of color, and the attacking on color; let's turn the tables. Why keep white? What makes white so fabulous? One time at a tourney, my Mom looked for me for nearly a half hour before finding me. Color would have helped a lot. True, others may use the same color, but that number would most likely be significantly less than the number of fencers in other colors, including white.
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Originally posted by Event Horizon But you can have color. Do you wear any color at all? I think they make color lame's for Sabre now. If not, I'm sure in due time.
Yes, I do. And it helps. But why not use more color? Knights wore their family crests and colors for almost the sole reason of identifying friend or foe on the battlefield. Again, there will be rules in place, so what's the big deal? Why the stubborness? There will still be rules established...
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"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it."
Originally posted by I_luv_saber Alright, how bout this. Instead of the defending of color, and the attacking on color; let's turn the tables. Why keep white? What makes white so fabulous? One time at a tourney, my Mom looked for me for nearly a half hour before finding me. Color would have helped a lot. True, others may use the same color, but that number would most likely be significantly less than the number of fencers in other colors, including white.
Using White is tradition. It also keeps everything simple and uniform. A nice nuetral color that gives the sport a look of professionalism and seriousness. A nice level playing field with minimal distraction, where skill and ability is the factor that is admired and respected, more than how a person looks. Instead of concentrating on what someone looks like, you can concentrate how someone fences. There's no prejudging of the participants. Of course this is just my interpretation of...a lofty ideal of fencing...more or less.
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