Colorful uniforms

[Event Horizon]

Peregrinus:

I'm not saying have no color, but saying isn't there enough? What you find tasteful, someone else may not. And what someone else has on his/her uniform/mask may seem tasteful to them but you may find it disgusting. Who's gonna make the call? How can one argue that one design is ok but another is not?

AFAIK, you can have a design on your mask. Who's the guy that has the clown face on his? How long has he had it?

Read the threads relating to the Swordmaster competitions. One of the main goals was to get on t.v. and they wanted everyone to have colorful uniforms: the more wild/colorful the better. You may not want to get on t.v. and neither do I, however, I think there are many in the fencing community who do and wouldn't mind making whatever changes necessary to accomplish this.

I'd hate to see Fencing digress into a bad imitation of the WWE.

[damianip]

I'd like to point out that two of the most popular sports in the world, soccer and cycling, both have colorful kits.

Paolo

[downunder]

Originally posted by Peregrinus
I just want a colored stripe on my sleeve or knickers or maybe a tasteful design on my mask. It's not for TV, it's for me.

you are allowed this as it is!

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by lochinvar
Inq--when has your dudgeon ever been low?

There are occasions, when I am asleep, for instance...

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Popper
A uniform all in black would look kind of cool....

I want to be the black knight!

Well, first you have to get the armorers to check the conductivity of your Milanese plate armor...

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by fencingguy

Imagine an NAC full of people fencing in their easily distinguishable club uniforms. It could run the gamut from full color uniforms to more simplistic designs or patterns.

Now imagine that four teams show up to a meet having chosen the same "cool" colors...back to square one.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Peregrinus
Just because people wear colorful costumes doesn't mean their sport isn't taken seriously.

I dunno, I hear a lot of fun being made of bobsledders' outfits, for one ( "body condoms", etc. ).

Downhill skiing and speed skating come to mind.

Well, the first of these almost requires garish colors, otherwise they'd just blend into the snow. ( Can you imagine fencers in their whites on a winter mountainside? )

I just want a colored stripe on my sleeve or knickers or maybe a tasteful design on my mask. It's not for TV, it's for me.

This is almost certainly the root of the issue. The other reasons are just camouflage for the rampant "Look at me!" attitude which has so infected modern societies.

Now, your tastes may be refined and restrained, you may only want a stripe and a "tasteful" design. But you cannot legislate taste or restraint, and there are others whose ideas for their kit will, I promise you, be FAR from tasteful. So you show up in your understated elegance, and find yourself facing a guy with a "one finger salute" painted on his mask, and a black hypnodisk painted on the chest of his vomit-colored lame, with one sleeve tartan, one striped, one leg polka dots and the other paisley, and all in different colors. Who wants THAT?

[whtouche]

Originally posted by Inquartata
, and find yourself facing a guy with a "one finger salute" painted on his mask, and a black hypnodisk painted on the chest of his vomit-colored lame, with one sleeve tartan, one striped, one leg polka dots and the other paisley, and all in different colors. Who wants THAT?

I kindof do now

[I_luv_saber]

Originally posted by Inquartata
I dunno, I hear a lot of fun being made of bobsledders' outfits, for one ( "body condoms", etc. ).





Well, the first of these almost requires garish colors, otherwise they'd just blend into the snow. ( Can you imagine fencers in their whites on a winter mountainside? )





This is almost certainly the root of the issue. The other reasons are just camouflage for the rampant "Look at me!" attitude which has so infected modern societies.

Now, your tastes may be refined and restrained, you may only want a stripe and a "tasteful" design. But you cannot legislate taste or restraint, and there are others whose ideas for their kit will, I promise you, be FAR from tasteful. So you show up in your understated elegance, and find yourself facing a guy with a "one finger salute" painted on his mask, and a black hypnodisk painted on the chest of his vomit-colored lame, with one sleeve tartan, one striped, one leg polka dots and the other paisley, and all in different colors. Who wants THAT?

Why have no restraint? I never heard that as a suggestion. There would still be rules on colors, e.g. maybe you can only have 3 solid colors. Or your mask cannot contain anything obscene. One finger salute, honestly. My point, still have color rules, just include the color. They should be more loose about it. I mean, some people have been saying you are allowed to do this... but this is only true up to a point. I've seen refs try and get a fencer to change out of a painted mask. In fact, there was a thread on whether it is legal or not earlier.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by I_luv_saber
Why have no restraint? I never heard that as a suggestion. There would still be rules on colors, e.g. maybe you can only have 3 solid colors. Or your mask cannot contain anything obscene. One finger salute, honestly. My point, still have color rules, just include the color. They should be more loose about it. I mean, some people have been saying you are allowed to do this... but this is only true up to a point. I've seen refs try and get a fencer to change out of a painted mask. In fact, there was a thread on whether it is legal or not earlier.

You'd be opening a legal Pandora's box. The more you let things proliferate and diverge, the more "edge cases" you'll have to deal with...by passing specific rules. Already you've suggested two. Now, "obscene"...but if it's in Japanese kanji? Or Cyrillic? Or Klingon? "Oops, we have to revise the rule again, guys."

What about a swastika on your mask? Not obscene, but certainly offensive. Or IS it? Is it really just a fylfot? Native American symbol, heeeey, can't mess with my freedom of religion!

Three colors? How many SHADES of each? How about in combination?

Why open that can of worms, just to suit people's fashion urges? Don't we have enough trouble figuring out the subtleties of the FENCING rules as it is?


(Urk...feel..dudgeon...rising....! )

[Army Fencer]

Do you see any obscene team warm-ups?

I think color would do a lot more to attract people than, say, a plexi-glass mask. It probably wouldn't be as expensive, either.

Whether for TV or for yourself, media attention = more interest in the sport = more people fencing = more likely to get good to great athletes.

I don't see why we need to be stuck in the 19th century, as much as you like your dungeon, Inq.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Army Fencer

I think color would do a lot more to attract people than, say, a plexi-glass mask.

Perhaps, but that's sort of like asking whether it's better to be executed by hanging or firing squad...

I don't see why we need to be stuck in the 19th century, as much as you like your dungeon, Inq.

You say that like it's a BAD thing....

[Event Horizon]

Originally posted by Army Fencer
Whether for TV or for yourself, media attention = more interest in the sport = more people fencing = more likely to get good to great athletes. [/b]

In order to get the media attention, the sport would have to change drastically to suite their needs. It'll cease to be a sport and more of entertainment.

media coverage is nice but not at the expense of the sport.

I agree with Inq. about opening up a pandora's box with the color issue. There will always be people pushing the envelope and challenging the rules of what's allowed.

[lochinvar]

Originally posted by Event Horizon
I agree with Inq. about opening up a pandora's box with the color issue. There will always be people pushing the envelope and challenging the rules of what's allowed.

And of course that would be different from now because...um...because...uh...

So we give them some different rules to push the envelope on. So what? I fail to see your point.

And as for everyone going out tomorrow and painting F*** Y** on his or her mask--Inq, you gotta trust people. No other sport that has colored uniforms has had this problem, or if they have had it, it's been dealt with successfully; what makes you think fencing will be the one, horrible exception?

Remember what Thomas Jefferson said: "Never trust a sport that doesn't trust its own members with color." (Or something like that.)

You may now put your dudgeon in high gear.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by lochinvar
So we give them some different rules to push the envelope on.

Not different. More. Why increase the level of complexity unnecessarily?

That's the key point: it is UNNECESSARY. It would be a squandering of resources. And for what? Vanity.

Inq, you gotta trust people.

Bah. As Mr. Howell of "Gilligan's Island" once very condignly said, "Trust made Julius Caesar a pincushion!"

No other sport that has colored uniforms has had this problem, or if they have had it, it's been dealt with successfully; what makes you think fencing will be the one, horrible exception?

The fact that unlike those other sports fencing is neither widely popular, possessed of plentiful resources to spend on dealing with such fripperies, nor run by people qualified to "deal with" problems that may arise from it?

Remember what Thomas Jefferson said: "Never trust a sport that doesn't trust its own members with color." (Or something like that.)

And as George Jefferson said, "Weezie! I don't trust people who all wear white!"

You may now put your dudgeon in high gear.

Or maybe I'll just keep on dudgeon the question...heh heh...

[lochinvar]

Originally posted by Inquartata
That's the key point: it is UNNECESSARY. It would be a squandering of resources. And for what? Vanity.

"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher; vanity of vanities, and all is vanity." Yes, it's for vanity's sake. I remain unrepentant about it. Maybe you like looking like the Ghost of Jacob Marley, but I do not. (Sorry, bad analog--you would never stoop to the wearing of chains! )

Bah. As Mr. Howell of "Gilligan's Island" once very condignly said, "Trust made Julius Caesar a pincushion!"

Um, no...that would have been Brutus and the Senate; Trust was out of town that day visiting his mother.

The fact that unlike those other sports fencing is neither widely popular, possessed of plentiful resources to spend on dealing with such fripperies, nor run by people qualified to "deal with" problems that may arise from it?

You're grasping at straws.
The "popularity" of the sport is irrelevant as it has no material impact on how its participants comport themselves--or have you noticed a sudden upswing of hooliganism among, say, Curlers that the rest of us missed?
I can't imagine what "resources" you think will be stretched by any of this: Time? Money? The Judicial Talents of our Esteemed Directors? What? Throw me a bone, here...
Run by people unqualified to deal with problems? Who do you think deals with problems, now? What would make these "new problems" qualitatively any different from the problems they already deal with? Talk about non sequiturs...

(And, Inq--"fripperies"...!? I mean, really!)

[Delmont]

So why is Inq the only one who seems adamantly opposed to this? I for one see nothing really worth this much debate. Color will not turn the sport into a side show like pro wrestling, nor will mask designs. It very well may be the "look at me" sindrom that inq has so frequently mentioned, or it may just be that we are all tired of wearing white, white white. Seeing so much white actually hurts my head, so I welcome color. Oh no, someone might have a white jacket and black nickers. What oh what will we do. Yes, if we allow color there will be some people who take it to the extreme, or make it offencive or whatever. But these are the same people who refuse to salute, or throw thier mask when they lose, or refuse to shake your hand after a bout. No point banning something because a minority will abuse it.

[Event Horizon]

Originally posted by Delmont
So why is Inq the only one who seems adamantly opposed to this? I for one see nothing really worth this much debate. Color will not turn the sport into a side show like pro wrestling, nor will mask designs. It very well may be the "look at me" sindrom that inq has so frequently mentioned, or it may just be that we are all tired of wearing white, white white. Seeing so much white actually hurts my head, so I welcome color. Oh no, someone might have a white jacket and black nickers. What oh what will we do. Yes, if we allow color there will be some people who take it to the extreme, or make it offencive or whatever. But these are the same people who refuse to salute, or throw thier mask when they lose, or refuse to shake your hand after a bout. No point banning something because a minority will abuse it.

You can have some color in your kit. Next time you buy a lame get a colored one. Or buy some colorful socks. You don't always have to wear white, white, white. At the local Salle, who cares what you wear. I've seen people in Jeans, sweats, shorts. But at a sanctioned tourney there should be uniformity and cohesion. And what about tradition? Doesn't that account for something? Well, probably not for most people. I think I'm in the minority on this.

Delmont: I think there will be more than just a few who will push the envelope. As far as those who refuse to follow protocol during and after a bout should be called on it (carded if at a tourney). It seems though that alot of it goes unpunised.

Loch: My point is that once you start relaxing the boundaries then where do you draw the line? Where will it all end?


I don't see how having color is going to make the sport better or make one a better Fencer. Just 'cause you look pretty doesn't mean you'll fence better. Although, I guess one could look strange enough to distract their opponent enough to win a bout.

[jeff]

Originally posted by Delmont
So why is Inq the only one who seems adamantly opposed to this?

Because he's enjoying it! I think he's having waaaay too much fun being the curmudgeon. ;-)