Passe Avant Question

[Talen]

I'm a novice foil fencer. I've been looking over the FIE proposed rule changes for foil. I was aware from this forum that banning the fleche was being considered.

However, after looking at the following website: http://www.escrime.org/rules%20exper...0experts_s.htm I noticed that the actual ban proposal is for the passe avant and by defacto it bans the fleche.

Am I musunderstanding the passe avant? I thought it was an advance by passing the back foot ahead of the front foot. I know it is a preparation for the fleche, but I thought it can also be used as a preparation for a lunge. Or just to cover ground when out of distance.

I don't currently have the fleche in my repertoire, and I'm not sure it really needs to be banned, but why ban the passe avant? Why not just ban the fleche if that is the FIEs desired goal?

Am I missing something? How is the passe avant ruining foil fencing?

[MyraTrue]

Talen, I myself wonder the same thing. Crossovers can be used to cover distance quickly, in prep for a lunge, for just about everything. I think there was something said about removal of fleche and all crossing over motions making it easier on the director. As if a director can't tell whats going on when someone fleches, or some such. I don't think they make it difficult, myself.

I DO fleche, and as a shorter fencer, it has done very well by me. When I cannot "reach" someone, a fleche is one of the best tactics I've ever found. Remove the fleche, or crossovers, and I'd be sunk. I do not, in the least, think they negatively impact foil. Or epee. I think removing them WILL harm the weapon, and the sport, AND make is less interesting to media, which they're discussing. Seeing someone take off in a beautiful, fast fleche is a sight to see, even if you don't fence. It "looks cool."

Sorry I don't have more concrete answers for you, simply my ideas on the matter.

-Myra

[The0ne]

Because the FIE doesn't make sense: "Let's make things 'easier' for directors by making them give out more cards!!! Then they'll be able to concentrate and get the ROW right."

As Liam Lynch says in the song "My United States of Whatever",

WHATEVA!!!!!

[Inquartata]

Well, in fact the prohibition of the passe avant in sabre has NOT eliminated the fleche. It has only caused it to mutate into the "flunge", or, as a friend of mine most happily dubbed it, the "flying weasel". You can still fleche; only the running recovery is now penalized. You must arrange to land and recover with the back leg still behind the front, that's all.

OTOH, it HAS eliminated the running attack ( and good riddance ).

[canthidefromme]

Originally posted by MyraTrue
Seeing someone take off in a beautiful, fast fleche is a sight to see, even if you don't fence. It "looks cool."

My fleche just confuses people:
"What was that? Was he trying to fleche?"
And ofcourse there was the time I decided to not fleche a little too late and we all know what happens then (thump). I blamed it on the slippery gym floor hehe.

[sabreur]

Originally posted by Inquartata

OTOH, it HAS eliminated the running attack ( and good riddance ).

Amen. It used to be:

"In the salle the sabreurs run to and fro..."

[Strytllr]

I think it bears reminding that these are all suggestions and by no means are final. The powers that be will decide which are good suggestions and what rules will be changed or not changed.

Personally, I don't see the passe avant changing. No more so than the bib rule (which I remember from more than 5 years ago, my old instructor telling me they were planning on making it legal in foil).

*shrug* of course, those are all opinions.

[I_luv_saber]

I don't know how I feel about the ban from crossing over in saber... running charges looked useful to me, but then again I've heard some of the older saberist say it's better off without. I never fenced when crossovers were legal, so I don't really care. I think (if I'm understanding correctly) this "flunge" you speak of is a move I do. While advancing (if my opponent is retreating very quickly and I can't catch him) I lean forward, and jump, bringing my back foot next to my front foot in mid-air. Then I land in a lunge. It's covers a helluva lot of ground and I find it useful, as long as used sparingly.