Sabre help

[Emilein]

Hi everyone!
I'm a beginning fencer, and we are doing sabre now, I find sabre alot harder than foil and I need some help......could anyone give me some tips on sabre? they would be greatly appreciated!

thanks

[retardedspleen]

Work on speed of footwork, and distance....those are 2 of the main parts of sabre fencing..

Anyobody else have some tips?


Chris Triplett

[SnowGlassApples]

Work on distance and timing, as any small action in sabre can go quickly awry and taken advantage of in a matter of seconds. So your reactions have to be quick and you have to adjust quickly or else your opponent in that time will have gotten the touch.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally posted by retardedspleen
Work on speed of footwork, and distance....those are 2 of the main parts of sabre fencing..

Anyobody else have some tips?


Chris Triplett

Fortwork does not have to be fast....at all. In sabre you can have slow controlled footwork, chase your opponent to the end of the strip (i.e. no chance to attack into prep) and feint cut. Don't need to be fast, just need good, solid, and controlled footwork.

I concur on distance...pretty essential in all weapons though.

[GreenDot]

Speed is not essential, but it can be important if your bladework and handwork is not extremely good. Personally, if someone is slowly chasing me down, it is much easier to take advantage of the slightest mistake in distance or guard position (I'm an evil lefty, so if your hand comes up and you're not making me work to get away from you I have a much greater chance to make attack in preparation).

That said, Khan is right that control is the most important thing to work on early, even though it may cause you to lose more than if you just went all out speed wise. Don't worry about losing, as you will regret your lack of control much more than losing those practice bouts a couple years down the road.

Incoherent as usual,
James

[pkt]

Emilein,

Footwork speed is not as important as good, solid finger and arm work. Hang up your mask and do the "tap-tap" cheek, "tap-tap" head, "tap-tap" cheek cutting exercise. If you get this cutting with the finger business, you'll be faster than the others who aren't.

It'd be an understatement to say that footwork in sabre is different from foil. To former World Champ Nazlymov, make your steps small, but do many more. Large steps throws your body out of balance adn you can't stop. The lunge in sabre does not have to be as long as that in foil since you've done all the work in the step fwds already. That said, you still should be able to once in a while to surprise your opponant with one long lunge.

We'll start with these.

PK

[Phoenix]

It's all in the wrist! Do small flicks with your wrist and stick your arm out all the way when u attack. also finish your moves. remember, it is right of way. also, don't always go for the head and try to catch them off guard with a jump and advance when u start. I've scared this kid twice in the same bout all the way to the end of the strip and got a point . ah.. the element of surprise. anymore questions?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Ummm it is not in the wrist. It is in the fingers, you are not supossed to "flick" with your wrist. But, yes changing it up is a good idea.

[retardedspleen]

I think speed of footwork is a must, if your in an intense bout, and you arnt able to get away, if the other person is closing distance faster than you want, sometimes, you need to be able to react... and get the hell outa dodge before your hit. distance and speed of footwork work in combination, good distance required use of fast footwork. if your footwork isnt fast, it can sometimes look like your sitting in prep... because your not going as fast. Or some refferees will see it as your simply "marching" or "walking" down the strip, and when they counter attack, it looks like they started.


you can be blazing fast with your feet and still have total control. The same way you can have blazing fast bladework, and still be in control.


Chris Triplett

[Phoenix]

sorry.. well, it kinda is a type of wrist movement if u think about it...

well, never mind

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally posted by retardedspleen
I think speed of footwork is a must, if your in an intense bout, and you arnt able to get away, if the other person is closing distance faster than you want, sometimes, you need to be able to react... and get the hell outa dodge before your hit. distance and speed of footwork work in combination, good distance required use of fast footwork. if your footwork isnt fast, it can sometimes look like your sitting in prep... because your not going as fast. Or some refferees will see it as your simply "marching" or "walking" down the strip, and when they counter attack, it looks like they started.


you can be blazing fast with your feet and still have total control. The same way you can have blazing fast bladework, and still be in control.


Chris Triplett

I still disagree. Granted fast footwork is nice, but not necessary. Who says fast footwork is a requirement for good distance? I sure don't. Why not just slow your oponent down with a point in line, or feint counter-attacks? Fast foot work just enhances distance. And if a referee says you are "marching" or "walking" down the strip just because you are moving slowly, then that is a bad referee. Kepp hand extending, blade at 135 degrees etc. no where in the rule book does it say that a fencer must be traveling at a certain velocity.

[Phoenix]

I disagree too. fast footwork isn't everything. you also need to use your mind. you want the best form and if you don't get it, then you can get injured later on and your fencing can get messy. Use thoughs fast feet when nesasary though ^_^.

[Emilein]

Thankyou everyone for all the tips, anymore would be great! then I would be the best in my class and I can go really far! This is an awesome website, I really like it.....

I have another question......

I have a foil competition tomorrow, and I know the basics, but can anyone help me with tricks, or really good tactics? I really want to do well. But one thing that I've learned from all these responses is to be in control, and I will be.

Thankyou so much!

good luck

Emily

[retardedspleen]

point in line is great, although against a good fencer, means less than a beat attack, or attack into prep. the speed at wich you think is faster than your feet. the speed of your feet, is close to the speed at wich you react to things. Fast footwork isnt a requirement for good distance, but may be a requirement for perfect/accurate distance, if the other person is using his speed to his advantage, and you cant keep up...well i dunno about you, but i can see how this could be a problem.. sometimes extreamly close distance is a good attack, it catches people off guard, its hard to parry against... speed comes into play here. you can get away, keep good distance, speed gives you that body fient, making it look like your going. whats in the rule book, and what gets called, or even whos a good reff, dosnt matter much when your on the strip, if you stopped and said "but in the rule book, it says if i keep extencing my arm..ect ect" well the ref will simply give you a yellow card, and call it anyways.

Arm exstension isnt always what gets called an attack, you can only extend your arm so far..for so long. a lot of times you can "start an attack" with your body, without the hand.. happens a lot, and is called an attack, because it looks like one, your entire body is moving so fast, that it looks as though your making a propper attack.

I'll give an example, yesterday, i re-entered the world of fencing, first time id fenced in over a year... it was great, although everything was sloppy, bladework, footwork, the works. But i could still move really really fast. I could out move most of the people there. i fenced about 30 15 touch bouts (wich was SO much after a year of no athletic exersice) twords the end i was dead tired, and knew that the next day i would be sore as hell. today i go back, to fence, barly able to walk, trouble getting into the car, or stepping up steps (you know how it is) i get a little warm, and things are better. Get on the strip...couldnt barly move my legs at all...i could a little bit, but nothing fast.... i did maybe half as good as i did yesterday, simply because i couldnt keep good distance. why couldnt i keep good distance? cause i wasnt fast enough...

you want an example of a world class fencer whos main abillity is footwork? take a look at Mike Momtselidze, hes ranked 9th in senior i think... he has prolly the fastest footwork in the USA. because of his fast feet, he has amazing distance control... hes also like 5'6 i think...most shorter people have a harder time getting away from people taller (wich is almost everybody) but hes still able to, because of speed.

if your so fast on your feet you can make anybody miss...tell me your not at a huge advantage versus others.


Chris Triplett

[sabreur]

I tried, but I can't resist...

For a beginner, speed is not nearly as important as learning to do footwork correctly... using primarily short steps, using mixed footwork, varying tempo. I'm a little old-fashioned, but if you want to be good, you need to practice your footwork until it is completely internalized... so you don't think about your feet, and they do the right things. You should be working on your footwork all the time, even when you are bouting--you'll lose a lot, but it will pay off in spades eventually. You should also work on incorporating jumps into your footwork from the beginning.

As you get more advanced, you need to be able to vary the speed and length of your advances. I think this gives you a far greater range of possibilities--short, quick advance, long slow advance, jump, etc., etc., to close distance with your opponent without him/her knowing what you doing.

Going backwards well is much harder than going forwards well. It takes a lot of practice and a lot of leg strength. If you can learn to vary tempo and length of retreats, you have a great advantage on defense. I love people who just try to run out of distance--they either run off the back of the strip, or I eventually chase them down and kill them. What is hard to deal with is someone who has a really active defense, who can dip in and out of distance as they are going backward. They are always looking to take the blade, attack in preparation or stop cut, deke you into ending your attack too early and too short, or deke you into cutting into a closed line.

Like I said, it takes a lot of leg strength and a lot of practice, but it is essential to a well-rounded game.

Finally, to fence sabre at a high level, you've got to be pretty quick. But speed comes from practice, not from brute strength and exertion. If you try to move faster than your footwork is capable of, you'll get off-balance, you won't be in control of your body, your feet or your hand, and you'll hit too hard.

Cheers, MR

[Peach]

Thank you for not resisting. Well said, as usual.

[I_luv_saber]

I agree, you don't NEED blazing fast footwork, though it is a plus. Concentrate on doing it right first. Burn it into your brain by doing it over and over. The only part it footwork where you HAVE to learn to be speedy (in my opinion), is changing direction. You go forward lunge, then you have to change direction fast and back up (if you miss). If not, you'll have to try a counter-parry at close-quarters and that can be risky. If your opponent is advancing on you too quickly, slow him down with fake counter attacks. If he doesn't buy it, take 3 or 4 VERY fast steps backwards and establish point-in-line. And last, but not least, keep your arm in proper en guard. 3. I see so many begginers have trouble with this, and as a result get countered (possibly attacked) on the wrist over and over. And remember drill your footwork until it is second-nature. Then, if you wish, you can work on speed.