"No flags, please"

[Dee EffEll]

Had something of a humbling experience today. Thought I'd share with my favorite crowd.

I went to the Post Office to get some supplies. While the clerk went to the back to get what I asked for, a little old lady stepped up next to me and told her teller, "I need a roll of stamps, and no flags, please." After a short pause in response to a quizzical look from the clerk, she continued on "I get those from the government for free."

While I suppose I should have minded my own business, my curiosity got the better of me. I looked at her and asked, "you get those from the government for free? That's different...." She looked at me and said rather tearfully, "yes, the government has sent me too many flags draped over coffins. They hand them to me after they're done."

*choke*

As gracefully as I could, I tried to console her for her loss, and apologised for my insensitivity. We enganged in a little small talk about how terrible it was that people die in wars, and how we wished it would all stop.

Her clerk returned (as had mine) with flag stamps. She rather forcefully, but politely said, "I don't want flags...." The clerk apologised, saying "I thought you said you wanted flags..." "No, no flags. I have all the flags I can handle." She got a roll of alternate stamps, and left. My clerk (who had not heard why she had made her request) seemed a little put off that the little old lady was so forceful about not wanting flags. I filled her in quickly.

Made me think. That flag can mean a lot of things to a lot of people.

[MikeHarm]

I read an article in Metro Times where it talked about some incidents of the post office calling the cops in to grill people who wouldn't take the flag's on their stamps for being suspected terrorists. She's lucky she had a good story for why she didn't want them.

[damion18d]

The flag means so many different things to different people. Depending on who you are and what you do, your feelings about it can change a hundred times in a day. As a professional soldier and self proclaimed patriot of the United States. I hold our flag in utmost respect. I have saluted it with tears in my eyes and a smile on my face just being so happy to see it. I have folded it with agony in my heart for a fallen friend and fellow soldier. I have raged at it's mistreatment by people who neglect it. The flag in the hands of my enemy is not the flag of my country. It is just a piece of cloth, but Americans who hang a flag and then neglect it to the point of tatters. Have forgotten it is not just a symbol of our country it is a symbol of sacrifice of those who protect our country. It is a beacon of light in many dark places. People can hate us around the world all they want, but when someone is beating down thier door you can bet your a$$ they want to see vehicles and soldiers with that flag all over the place to protect them. Next time you see a flag take a moment to take a hard look. Patriots of this counrty have given you the right to walk free and live your life by thier blood. Love it or hate it it's the best thing going today.
I truly am sorry for that ladies loss. The next time I salute the flag I will remember your story and her loss. Then I will thank God I am an American and for people who stand up and defend that.
Sorry for hijacking the thread it is a subject I feel very strong about.
Ken

[Mergs]

Ken, please don't appologize. You are dead on, and I can say I know exactly how you feel and echo your sentiments. I can also empathize with the poor lady in the post office. I've had to look in the eyes of family when handing that flag to them and felt their anger, pride, sadness, love and host of other emotions. It's something that lives with you for ever. Even had one spouse refuse to take it from me. But you know, we can do that in a free society. And it is the sacrifices of those whom the flag embraced and they that have embraced it make that society possible. And that flag is the highest token a grateful country can offer those who have suffered loss in it's defense.

Isn't it interesting that when foreign groups protest, it's only the American flag they seem to burn? Not the UN flag. Guess that's because they know how serious we take our flag. But as you say, the flag in the hand of my enemies is just a piece of cloth. But they do it because it is known how much we love and respect it.

Hooah.

[canthidefromme]

Originally posted by Mergs

Isn't it interesting that when foreign groups protest, it's only the American flag they seem to burn? Not the UN flag. Guess that's because they know how serious we take our flag. But as you say, the flag in the hand of my enemies is just a piece of cloth. But they do it because it is known how much we love and respect it.

Does the UN even like the UN?

[Soldier]

Originally posted by damion18d
The flag means so many different things to different people. Depending on who you are and what you do, your feelings about it can change a hundred times in a day. As a professional soldier and self proclaimed patriot of the United States. I hold our flag in utmost respect. I have saluted it with tears in my eyes and a smile on my face just being so happy to see it. I have folded it with agony in my heart for a fallen friend and fellow soldier. I have raged at it's mistreatment by people who neglect it. The flag in the hands of my enemy is not the flag of my country. It is just a piece of cloth, but Americans who hang a flag and then neglect it to the point of tatters. Have forgotten it is not just a symbol of our country it is a symbol of sacrifice of those who protect our country. It is a beacon of light in many dark places. People can hate us around the world all they want, but when someone is beating down thier door you can bet your a$$ they want to see vehicles and soldiers with that flag all over the place to protect them. Next time you see a flag take a moment to take a hard look. Patriots of this counrty have given you the right to walk free and live your life by thier blood. Love it or hate it it's the best thing going today.
I truly am sorry for that ladies loss. The next time I salute the flag I will remember your story and her loss. Then I will thank God I am an American and for people who stand up and defend that.
Sorry for hijacking the thread it is a subject I feel very strong about.
Ken

Roger that.

[damion18d]

The UN demands no respect so they get none. If you make demands and never back them. You are a figure head with no power. I would rather be considered a tyrant and back up what I say, than be a coward openly. I am a soldier and I have worked my whole adult life to that end. I am a triple tabber, so for those of you who know what that means you can see I'm serious about this. We should have gotten out of the UN when they decided to stop mattering. You can have all the meetings in the world and bluster till you're blue in the face: your enemies aren't listening. There are places where action is the only language that is truly heard! You can't bring peace to people who don't want it. Go to any country that has deep seeded hate, and a history of in fighting. You can ask any old lady on the street " if you could have peace tomarrow do you want it" the answer evertime would be yes. Now ask "if that peace depends on sharing power with your enemy, do you still want it" ? Everytime "NO, with those murderers and thieves!" I've carried out my little experiment in the Balkins, the Congo, parts of South America, and the Middle East. You can't sell peace or democracy where nobody is buying. The UN wants the whole world to be at peace and happy. Never happen
"War was here waiting for man before he ever was. It will lay in wait long after he is gone" Unknown
Ken

[Bavwaqnip]

Normally, I just read the posts because I don't have much to say, but I couldn't let this subject go. I agree with you, so this doesn't really add anything new to the thread, sorry.

As for talking to people in foriegn countries about wanting peace, that was the same in Kososvo as in all the places you talked about.


Rock on

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally posted by Mergs
Isn't it interesting that when foreign groups protest, it's only the American flag they seem to burn? Not the UN flag. Guess that's because they know how serious we take our flag. But as you say, the flag in the hand of my enemies is just a piece of cloth. But they do it because it is known how much we love and respect it.

Hooah.

Well, I can´t say that I have kept tabs, but I seem to remember that the Israeli, Japanese, British, and probably other flags beside the stars&stripes have been burnt, and the images thereof shown in papers.

The UN flag? well, there are no UN citizens, so less people who feel offended. Also, I doubt that there are all that many people who really despise the UN (outside of USA, that is) so that they would want to burn the UN flag. It is true that americans are serious about their flag - look around in many european countries, and you will see far fewer flags.

In Sweden, the country of which I can speak with some certainity on this topic, the burning of the Swedish flag was made not illegal for a few decades ago. Politicians could not afford to alienate the antipatriotic vote - politicians must think about being reelected first and foremost, and any politician who chooses to piss off a lot of potential voters for something that will not help the deficit (or some onther tangible thing) is shooting himself in the foot. Burning flags of other countries is illegal however, the rationale being that individual citizens should not mess up foreign policy.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[arcon]

Yes, Peter. We sometimes forget there are other free Nations out
there. We're the biggest kid on the block but not the only one.
They have flags and views just as we do. Being the biggest kid,naturally, we get the most attention(News Coverage).

[damion18d]

Bavwaqnip: I spent time in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Macedonia. The Balkins are a perfect example of what I am talking about. Places where nobody is buying peace that dosen't involve victory for their side.
Ken

[damion18d]

Peter I'm not saying that I care about my enemies burning American flags. As I stated in an earlier post my flag in the hands of my enemy ceases to be my flag, it is just a piece of cloth at that point. Also I am not unaware of alot of the problems other nations deal with for standing for a lot of the same principles the U.S. does. In my line of work I work hand in hand with many militaries from other countries. You would be surprised all you can learn about a people from working in dire situations. Also the amount of traveling I do(much of which is as a civilian)brings me closer to understanding other viewpoints outside the American model. That is not to say I always agree, but I am always willing to listen as long as it borders common sense.
Thanks Ken

[swordsen]

Interestingly enough here in afghanistan the average guy on the farm does want peace and he doesn't care. Now when you get to guys in the various groups the story begins to change.

[damion18d]

Talk to the guys in the various factions and see how far you get. I couldn't believe it. I would have thought after all those years of fighting then oppression, you could put what seem to boil down to petty differences away.
By the way, thanks for what you are doing. I hope you are holding up. If there's anything within reason you need that you can't get locally give me a holler. Stay safe.
Ken

[swordsen]

I spend lots of time talking to the various groups. Sort of fits in my job description. Idiots abound.

What I really need is a plane ticket but......

[Soldier]

I'd give you a ride if I could, but there's a few years yet before I'll be able to do that kind of thing.