[CFML] future of SF looks more like CF

There are lots of dictionary defiitions. Like this one from
mirriam-webster.com
Main Entry: martial art
Function: noun
Date: 1933
: any of several arts of combat and self-defense (as karate and judo) that
are widely practiced as sport
- martial artist noun

Tell me again how this applies to sport fencing, especially foil. Even by
your definitions I give you Art, I do not see Martial.

I grant that some people practice sport fencing with martial intent. I also
know some people who practice American football as close combat or miltary
strategy. I find neither aberrtion compelling me to expand my definition of
"martial art".

Bob Lyle

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian D. Schenck" <bdschenck@yahoo.com>
To: <classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CFML] Re: future of SF looks more like CF


> --- Bob Lyle <blyle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > The important difference is not whether an art is stylized on empiracle.
> > The litmus test for a martial art must be whether it is intended for
> > combat, or at least to assist one to become a better combatant. You can
> > argue which of kendo, jeet kune do, gung fu, or classical fencing are
> > better, but they are all martial arts.
> >
> I believe that to be only one of what is a number of applicable
definitions.
> Personally, I prefer what Dictionary.com has to say:
>
> art: A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a
set
> of activities. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles
and
> methods. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation.
>
> martial: Of, relating to, or suggestive of war. Relating to or connected
with
> the armed forces or the profession of arms. Characteristic of or
befitting a
> warrior.
>
> Sport Fencing certainly meets the definition of art. While you can
certainly
> believe that it's not "proper" or "correct", it meets that definition
hands
> down. And while the practice may not truly be meant for combat -- I don't
> believe any current practioners of Fencing, Sport or Classical, intend to
use
> their skills for combat -- it is martial in nature. Agreed, less martial
than
> Classical fencing, but martial nonetheless.
>
>
> > Far too many sport fencers, their instructors, and even matres view
their
> > end purpose as turning on a little light. This is not a martial art.
> >
> I would disagree and say it is not a martial philosopy or value. But then
what
> of individuals who practice a martial art for form and technique alone,
without
> any desire to use it in practice for defense or fighting? Obviously that
> breaks with the "martial philosophy" and focuses less on the practical
> application, and more on the aesthetic.
>
>
> -Brian
>
>
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> I'm not one of those who limits the definition of fencing to the
> original martial art version. I consider sport fencing, classical
> fencing, historical fencing, theatrical fencing to all be different
> forms of fencing. They are all valid, and fun, and provide their
> practitioners with many years of physical, mental, and emotional rewards
> and enjoyment.
>
My apologies Rez, I did not mean to say you per se were saying this -- just
that this is the general attitude that I see far too often displayed by more
than a few on the list. I have no problem with feeling this way, just that I
do not think it needs to be said as often as it is.

I acknowledge that Sport Fencing is far and away not nearly the "martial art"
it could be, and it has lost much of its "martial" aspect -- and it would be
nice to see that come back into the sport. But, I came here to learn about
Classical Fencing, not to hear about how bad Sport Fencing is, how inaccurate
it is or anything else similar to that.

It is not productive to the discussion of Classical Fencing, and I feel it
serves to further separate the two from each other. Perhaps some feel that the
two should be kept as far away from each other as possible -- but I would
prefer to see some middle ground for discussion. Especially for those who
would like to take some of the practices of Classical Fencing and expand our
repertoire to ensure that the techniques were practice are not just the
"mutations".


> I'm just glad that people are finally becoming aware of the fact that
> here in the West we have just as rich, if not more so, of a martial arts
> heritage as our Eastern counterparts.
>
I agree as well. The popular view of "martial arts" as just being something
portrayed in kung fu films does a lot of injustice to the practice of
swordsmanship in Europe, let alone the unarmed combat styles.


-Brian

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