Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

hscoach · 11-03-2003, 03:14 PM

Footwork is very important. Also, on the first few days it is very dangerous putting many weapons in hands of people who do not know how to handle them (depending on space). Your coach may not have enough weapons or masks for everyone and is trying to see if anyone is going to quit.

hscoach · 11-03-2003, 03:29 PM

It is sad to say many people do not understand what fencing is. Let your adminstrator know that fencing is safe. He can ask any athletic director who has fencing in their school and they will let him know that all the other sports have more injuries. Let him know that it is an NCAA Division I sport. Do not call your foil, epee, saber a weapon call it by it's name. I do not know if any schools have teams in California the states that I do know of are Texas, NJ, NY and IL. If you need someone to talk to him I would gladly help you in anyway I can. I coach a H.S. team in NJ. Maybe a video of fencing would help too. Get the list from the NCAA of all the colleges that have teams and clubs.

DHCJr · 11-03-2003, 04:02 PM

High School fencing is alive and well in California. Here is the web site for the Southern California Scholastic League, http://www.schsfence.org/

There is also a lot of Youth, Cadet and Junior Fencing in the San Francisco Bay area.

DanInMI · 11-03-2003, 04:23 PM

Why do you care about fencing on a high school team?
One of the great things about fencing is that you DON'T have to be on a varsity team in order to participate at the highest possible level of competition. In fact, I would hazard to guess that you will find that the level of fencing that you get at USFA tourneys far excedes what you would come across at high school tourneys.

Go to the USFA tourneys in Illinios, there are plenty of them, and maybe even get rated. Then when they want you to come try out again you can turn your nose up at them and say "Nahhh, that's not for serious fencers...."

tchwojko · 11-03-2003, 04:47 PM

25 minutes of footwork in the tryout seems like a decent measure for high school fencers. You don't need a blade in hand to see who's going to be balanced and in control when it counts.

Wizardly · 11-03-2003, 05:58 PM

Dan: do you regard NCAA fencing in a similar fashion?

MattyCam · 11-03-2003, 06:04 PM

Adam,

At least at NT you guys can cut. Stevenson doesn't...

--Matt

Hyperion1250 · 11-03-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flunge
At New Trier, to the best of my knowledge, the top 4 fencers in each weapon, and occasionally a sub, make up the varsity.

The JV is 3 or 4 freshmen and sophomore fencers in each weapon (Gaining experience so they can be the next varsity fencers).

Are you %$#!ing me? That's new trier's team? It has to be more, there's no way on earth 8 or 9 people could compete with some of the other teams around hear, stevenson's team is HUGE, though my guess would be that they send that many people to some of the tournaments but you'd need more than that to go against stevenson, maine south, culver, etc....

BTW, Adam: if you're on JV i'll be fencing you in a few weeks

neevel · 11-03-2003, 06:20 PM

Also keep in mind that, for the most of the Great Lakes High School conference tournaments, you don't need to be a member of HS team to fence. Any high school age fencer can enter the tournaments, either representing a club or unattached. The website for the conference is at http://nths.newtrier.k12.il.us/athle...whsf/mwhsf.htm. You can contact the schools hosting tournaments for registration information and deadlines.

-Dave

Flunge · 11-04-2003, 02:43 PM

NT (and some of the other schools) have 8 or 9 per weapon, not total, making it 50 or so kids total.

Important point of clarification: You can't fence in Great Lakes High School meets independently if your high school has a team there.

Wizardly · 11-04-2003, 03:33 PM

Also bear in mind that some schools have a tendency to shed fencers as teh year progresses. NT probably does the same. Also, schools have "oficial" jv teams at times, but also have a number of novice and less-than-stellar fencers beond that. As he saing goes, "every tournament needs fodder."

fencingguy · 11-04-2003, 04:02 PM

As a graduate of New Trier, an Alumni of the fencing team and a current coach myself, I can tell you that the coaches see a lot in the first two weeks of practice. Just because you can fence doesn't mean you'll be good to have on the team. They're looking for athletic ability and work ethic, primarily. Remember, most of the kids can't fence yet and don't know a thing about it. If Mr. Vargas just threw them all on a strip with weapons, what would he really see? Probably nothing. Instead, by concentrating on how hard someone works and what natural athletic skills they already have he can a lot more accurately predict who he can teach to be a good fencer and who is going to struggle for four years because they probably won't put in the effort necessary to succeed and improve. If you work hard during tryouts, and keep helping out others you'll probably make the team with ease. Making varsity could be another story. Just remember that even if you don't make it initially, you could always get switched later on to the starting spot if you show you're better than someone else.

PS Don't listen to DanInMI, highschool sports are a great thing to be involved in. You get a chance to represent your school and make some great new friends both on your team and others.

Have fun and Good Luck!

edit: just cleared up a couple typos, and probably missed more

DanInMI · 11-04-2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flunge
NT (and some of the other schools) have 8 or 9 per weapon, not total, making it 50 or so kids total.

Important point of clarification: You can't fence in Great Lakes High School meets independently if your high school has a team there.

You can't? On the site it says:

" Any high school fencer (9th-12th grade) is invited to participate. Individual, club, and high school team trophies are awarded. "

DanInMI · 11-04-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fencingguy

PS Don't listen to DanInMI, highschool sports are a great thing to be involved in. You get a chance to represent your school and make some great new friends both on your team and others.

I never said that High School sports are not a great thing to be involved in. I was pointing out that one of the great things about fencing is that if he doesn't make the high school fencing team that he can still be very active in fencing and compete on a very high level. You can't say that about a lot of other high school sports. (If you don't make the football team you are not going to find that recreational leagues are as competitive.)

DanInMI · 11-04-2003, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flunge
NT (and some of the other schools) have 8 or 9 per weapon, not total, making it 50 or so kids total.

Important point of clarification: You can't fence in Great Lakes High School meets independently if your high school has a team there.

the more that I think about this...the less i understand it.
Why would they allow kids from schools that are not members of the conference to fence, and not allow kids from schools that ARE members of the conference fence as independents?

The only reason that I can think of is so that the coach is not embarrassed by a kid that didn't make the team winning the event.

hscoach · 11-04-2003, 06:27 PM

in NJ. If a child does not have fencing, swimming, gymnastics etc in their school they can enter a tournament to qualify for the State Tournament through their school as an independent. I really do not know of any school with a fencing team who would cut a fencer with potential to be in the States. The level of fencers who end up in states is very high.

DanInMI · 11-04-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hscoach
in NJ. If a child does not have fencing, swimming, gymnastics etc in their school they can enter a tournament to qualify for the State Tournament through their school as an independent. I really do not know of any school with a fencing team who would cut a fencer with potential to be in the States. The level of fencers who end up in states is very high.

But why not let an independent from a school that DOES have a team compete? If they will allow any HS age fencer from outside the conference compete as an independent, regardless of talent, why not let an independent from a school that DOES have a team? If a beginner fencer from Michigan is welcome to show up and compete, why shouldn't a beginner fencer from New Trier HS be just as welcome? Especially if his school is hosting the tourney!

Besides, qualifying for the state tourney does not seem to be a factor here. This conference crosses into four different states, and is probably representative of all the HS fencing in those states. (although I do not know that for certain.) I do not believe that there is a "State" tourney in any of those states.

fencingguy · 11-05-2003, 11:29 AM

I believe the main purpose of the rule is to encourage participation on the Highschool teams. Since, at heart, the tournament is supposed to be a high school championship, the kids participating should be on a highschool team. If their school does not have a team they shouldn't be punished by being excluded, but can fence representing their highschool. If their highschool already has entrants, then you can't double up or schools could end up entering 3 or 4 teams. Because this is a "Highschool" tournament, not requiring USFA membership, the fencers are not representing their clubs either. It's not an attempt to exclude people from the tournament, just a way to make sure the highschool championships are actually for Highschool fencers.

DanInMI · 11-05-2003, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fencingguy
I believe the main purpose of the rule is to encourage participation on the Highschool teams. Since, at heart, the tournament is supposed to be a high school championship, the kids participating should be on a highschool team. If their school does not have a team they shouldn't be punished by being excluded, but can fence representing their highschool. If their highschool already has entrants, then you can't double up or schools could end up entering 3 or 4 teams. Because this is a "Highschool" tournament, not requiring USFA membership, the fencers are not representing their clubs either. It's not an attempt to exclude people from the tournament, just a way to make sure the highschool championships are actually for Highschool fencers.

They are not punishing they kids that attend schools that do not have a team, they are punishing kids that go to schools that DO have a team! These kids go to the school that is actually a member of the conference (thier parents property taxes are paying the dues.) Yet they may not compete because they didn't make the team. However, someone from a school outside the conference MAY compete without ANY tryouts at all.

It seems to me that it is a big advantage for someone that fences regularly with a club, but goes to a school that does NOT have a fencing team. There are no "tryouts" for that person. That person may attend USFA tourneys and represent his club. That person does not have to worry about skipping a practice and getting cut from the team. Also an unlimited number of students from that school may attend, they just don't qualify to win the "team" award.

You said that "you can't double up or schools could end up entering 3 or 4 teams." They would not be entering 3 or 4 teams.....they would fence as individuals.

Don't you see how unfair it is that Adam may be cut from the team and not allowed to compete in his own conference, yet I can bring my 15 year old over from Michigan and he may compete in any of thier tourneys with no "tryouts" at all?

DanInMI · 11-05-2003, 12:18 PM

Also, I am not convinced that this rule actually exists. The web page says:

" Any high school fencer (9th-12th grade) is invited to participate. Individual, club, and high school team trophies are awarded. "

It makes no exception for students of schools that have teams that are members of the conference. Of course, that could be due to the fact that the page is not very comprehensive.

I know that if Adam was my kid I would be taking him to the tourneys and challenging them to show us the rule. And if the rule exists, I would challenge the rule in court.