How do you handle this type of fencer

[CSports]

Slo Mo Biscuit 1 is not my son

In this tournament, I thought I saw something. I was not clear on how and when to deal with it and I asked. I did not mention names, clubs or city. I was under the impression that the hit to the wrist, was a complete accident, until this year- same spot different fencers- not related to me- same results- a numb hand. Am I to forget about this? How long will it be before this fencer hurts someone? Last year I asked a question concerning and interpretation of a rule and I was basically blown off. I wanted to know the venue, , the how the wheres and whens to deal with this in the future.

also:
Now I have been given advice that it is probably not a good idea for my fencer to fence in this town again or at least until division. Has this sport become that vindictive in this city? Will there really be head hunting? Please note as Biscut 1 said, there was a fencer there bragging about breaking blades on another fencer. What does one do now? Travel to other cities?

There has been some intense name calling, and I do not believe it has been by me- I stand by my follow up post- if they - the club or members of that club would like to email me, or call me, my name and my business is in the telephone book and we can sit down and discuss this- I will.

I think it might have been the STL FENCER said

So come if you wish, but in the future, keep your slanderous lies, primitive insults, and crude remarks to yourself.

Am I to take this as a threat? Or an order? I am very confused concerning this matter. Please explain.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

CS:

I don't believe Biscut alleged that the blade breaker was bragging about his iron-snapping prowess, just that the wrist-whacker also broke several blades.

Who advised you that your son shouldn't fence in St. Louis? Someone from your club? Someone from STL Fencer's club?

Don't let anyone intimidate your family from fencing. Go to the next meet, and if you see something you feel is inappropriate, go to the bout committee and ask for observation. Any member of the bout committee can black card a fencer, with or without the participation of the referee. If the wrist whacker is in your son's pool or DE, then by all means, ask for observation. The spotlight of scrutiny can often change behaviors.

[STLfencer]

To CS

In response to your post, generally the word NO comes to mind. No one implied head hunting would be taking place. No one threatened you or your son in any way. No one told you that should you chose to come to another of our tournaments that anything would happen. Should you listen to these threats? Show me the threats.

Again, come if you wish, I personally don't care either way. I will fence at the tournaments regardless, and you or your son's presence is just a number on a page.

To Slo

In response to your post, generally the words GET A LIFE come to mind. We happen to be writing in an online post, a place where lax typing and editing are generally accepted. I have neither the time nor the inclination to double-check every word of this to please you. If however you decide that you need to test me, please fill me in, as I will be happy to impress you with fine writing if necessary. I would also like to point out that this is also a generally useless tactic of assault, as it does little to respond to any of the actual issues at hand, and are more of an attempt at a personal assault. Thank you for playing, better luck next time.

If it's quotes of which you are fond, here are a few:

"The man who uses a dull axe to cut a tree many times finds that the tree is much harder to cut. The man who uses a dull whit to cut a man, usually finds that it is he who ends up the worse off for the experience." -Daoist proverb

"Mudslinging only serves to get everyone dirty." -Andrew Jackson

And a favorite of mine:

"Sit on it!" -famous line from the hit TV Show, Happy Days

Feel free to replace the last with a better request if you don't find that one adequate.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

I'm guessing that when it was time for studying galvanic responses in biology class, everyone always pointed at you.

If you can't back it up, don't stick your nose in the air and proclaim your literary editing proficiency.

Let's go back to the thread. You asserted that no such thwackage and thumpage took place at your tournament, and threw out a fair bit of mudslinging at someone who had a question about events he/she allegedly witnessed.

Now, another person has stepped forward with a corroborating account. Is this only another, identical case of sour grapes? We await the spin.

As far as "head hunting", why do you think someone warned CSport against having his son fence again against the people from the previous meet, at least for a while? Enquiring minds want to know.

[Catlady]

Originally posted by STLfencer
Five, thank you oh so much for your personal attack on my grammar, which I would like to point out is not a problem in the slightest, a fact that can be attested to by the position of assistant editor that I hold in the literary magazine "Spectrum," which I also happen to hold a permanent column in. If you read it again, you should find that the sentence structure is actually quite correct and needs no help. However, should you find the need to point it out again, I will be happy to repeat that you are incorrect. Feel free to consult a writing tutor if you have any more questions about the English language, or I would be happy to tutor you when I have spare time.

To this I must say big, fat, hairy deal--in the somewhat immortal words of Garfield. I'll see and raise you. I was short fiction editor of my high school literary mag., back in the dark ages that comprised the 90s, I have a BA in English, with honors, and most of a Masters degree in written communications. I have several local publication credits as well. While, this does not make me anymore immune to typos than you or anyone else, and though I usually do not feel the need to mention these things as this is a fencing board, not a writing and grammar board, if we are going to boast of credentials, you're not the only one who has some and in fact I suspect that I could tutor you in language, should you require it.

It has been my pleasure to respond to your somewhat overwrought post. While I generally find it a "low blow" to criticize someone soley on their facility with the language, I also find it equally uncouth to boast of one's own prowess with it.

Now I do not recall anywhere in the initial post where the writer said, or even implied, that fencers from your club were taught to behave in an unsportsmanlike manner. If you can quote me the portion of text where this occurs, please do so.

I am certainly aware of the difficulties of running a fencing club on a tight budget, and know that while it is far from ideal, sometimes you have to self direct. If the original poster were to have complained about either the cost, or the need to self-direct in his initial post I would have certainly corrected him, however, as I saw it, he mentioned individual fencers who behaved in what appeared to be an unsportsmanlike manner and asked how to deal with them. I agree that advocating unsportsmanlike conduct in return is incorrect, you will note I did not suggest anything like it in my response.

Thank you , take a deep breath, in, out, in, out. There, feel better? And have a nice day.

[sawsehel]

Mmmmmm....

Mudslinging.

As someone who can honestly say that I really couldn't care
less about where this all happened, seeing as I don't even live in the states, I still have to say that I enjoyed reading this thread.

Misinterpretations, mudslinging, misinformation...

Mmmmm....

I'd just like to say that I personally would honestly never express too much personal feelings in a post. Even if I took something personally I still think that a cool head gets you more real answers than using personal assaults.

Just something to think about. I'm looking forward to how this ends. If it does. If it hasn't already.

As Catlady said: Deep breaths.

-Sawsehel

[CSports]

It was advised by others in the fencing comunity in my city and area, to fence in other areas. Believe it or not, there are other fencing communities in my city and there are other clubs. One suggested that they would film every match from now on.

Also be be noted , it was not the wrist wacker that bragged on blade breaking, it was the flecher.

I still want to know- the what if- what if I do continue to question calls and tactics, What is going to happen?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

OK, CS, let's be a little more specific.

1. The "Go Elsewhere, Young Man!" advice. What was the rationale given to you? Did these people (and please let us know if it's one person, or more than one telling you this) think your son was in danger of physical reprisal on the strip, or that he would have skewed directing against him, or something else?

2. Video documentation. Were they intending to take pictures of anyone in particular, any club in particular? And for what purpose?

3. Blade breaking and sundry whackage. Let's be clear here, so STL can either stand down or have an attack of apoplexy. Are the wrist whacker and/or the flecher members of the club that STL has felt the need to defend so vigorously, or are they ronin fencers from the Golgothan Hackers Club (or some other unnamed salle)?

4. Questioning calls and tactics. This may turn into two different issues. During a bout, you may not challenge a director's version of events, only a mis-application of the rules. For example, if you think a hit should have drawn a brutality card, and the director doesn't pull it, there's no appeal...just like you can't challenge a call where you thought one fencer had a PIL, but the director rules it did not have priority and awards a touch the other way. If the director makes a rules mistake...say one fencer goes off the strip, and the director advances the opponent 5 meters forward instead of one...that's the kind of thing you can take to the bout committee.
If you truly believe there is head hunting going on, by all means, ask a member of the bout committe to observe every now and then. Just remember that if you repeatedly make a lot of noise without much evidence or corroboration, you will make yourself unpopular pretty quickly, and may not get much attention from the folks in charge. This is where it might help to have some video documentation. Have a group of folks who have been on the receiving end of the actions you question go together to the bout chair or the Division Chair and make your case in a calm manner. Don't demand someone's head on a platter...just ask that they try to keep good sportsmanship enforced at the meets.

[Craig]

Removing a series of posts asking about removal of posts as they are 100% off the topic at hand.

Cheers,
Craig

[CSports]

It was more than one person's oppinion that physical retribution would be more of the response. Again Please note: that 99.99% of the individuals that we have met are very responsible and just plain great people! However the few, can and will taint the water very very fast.

This concern, this question never needed to grow into the debacle it has, however the items need to be addressed. Some in a certain club feel they will have a shadow over them. again this was never the intention. Some might believe that their club would never do this infraction, but it is not the club, it is a fencer!

Many people in country have put faith in a person or persons, and later find out that this person or person did make mistakes or break laws.

My question returns to what would be the "Proper way to handle this question" Not do anything? Take revenge? Never fence there agian- then do they win by default?
If I am new to this venue and unfimiliar to the proper channels, there still is a problem. will the sport advance until the field seems to be level?

[DonCatSTL]

Well,

at the risk of incurring wrath, widiclule and weprisal, I will weigh in on this.

I would like to make the following points:

1: in reading the original post, I don't feel it was especially vindictive or accusatory. Yes, the fact that the poster's hometown was listed as St. Louis, and that the message referred to a "local" tourney would indicate it was a "local" St. Louis tournament. If one were to be completely neutral, this could have been omitted, but there doesn't appear to be any specific mal-intent, looking strictly at the content of the post.

2: following up on #1, the responses definitely ranged from the good and bad, to the ugly. But this is a public forum. People have various reasons and agenda for lurking about. I assume most have the best intentions; those who don't deserve nothing more than disregard.

3: when people have vested personal interest in a thing, the emotion that engenders may not always be received in the best light, but the intentions hopefully are for the best

4: there were a couple of specific points raised in the original post - one of a more technical nature, which some in this forum have answered with appropriate reserve and thought; the other regarding specific local division and club performance and responsibilities - organizations which, while not specifically mentioned, could more than easily be inferred. Many of the responses in that vein were a bit sophomoric, uninformed and unfortunate.

All this being said, by way of complete disclosure, I, also, was at the event and feel, as local events go, it was run in a competent and efficient manner, given the resources, as possible. There were channels available at the competition for any concerns or complaints. If those were voiced, they were not raised to a level that was acted on. The atmosphere, in general, seemed to be of good cheer and sportsmanship.

Like all things, there is always room for improvement. The division executive committee would be the next logical place to go with complaints, concerns, suggestions, etc. If you feel that you do not receive a fair hearing, then take it to the section. We all engage in this sport for a variety of reasons, and while we do need to keep this in perspective, we want to do it well and provide the best possible environment for everyone to acheive their personal goals.

I will now take my soapbox and depart.


cheers

[Alpha03]

If he is fleching and keeps hitting you...
-Lower shoulder and step into flech

if they dont get the picture then...
-do a drop counterattack. the 1 where u duck and extend blade.

dont trust the ref to card especially at a local tournament. They probably know both fencers and dont want to card either 1 of them. If you think that this behavior is 'unacceptable' im sorry but its just what i think. it really works well tho.