November Swordmaster Series Cancelled

[fencergal33]

Due to lack of participation, the November Swordmaster series, and all subsequently scheduled events have been cancelled. Thanks goes to all who participated in the first event, as well as those who signed up for the November event. All November entrants will be refunded their entry fees. With some reworking, we may give it another go sometime next year. Thanks!

-K

[picojeff]

For myself, and on behalf of the several people I know in this area who planned to send in their registrations this week, let me say "That stinks." The entry deadline is Friday, and knowing how most of the fencers I know operate I would guess most potential participants would be sending their entry this week.

Is it really only lack of participation, or are there other factors?

[CarlKnoch]

I'm with Jeff. It Stinks. I was also planning on sending my registration this week. I've also already had paint work on my jacket.

What's the story?

[Mergs]

Sounds like a PFL redeux

[Fechter1]

I had just sent in my registration when I found out. While I agree with Carl and Jeff (stinks), I understand why it was cancelled. Oh well.

[Wizardly]

Seriously, the least you could do is wait until Saturday (or have planned for the deadline to be earlier so that the opt-out date wasn't BEFORE the deadline).

What do you mean you may give it another try sometime next year? All subsequent events are cancelled, remember? "Hurry up and register for an event that is already canceled" just doesn't work, especially when you base the cancellation on lack of participation!

Who's running this thing, anyway???

I think all you epeeists just got blamed for something they fouled up.

[MikeHarm]

I think they need new management if this is to ever be successful.

[swordsen]

Well, they can try and have it next year but given this I wouldn't expect a big turnout.

[fencergal33]

Ok....here's how it is....

First, I'd like to issue a personal apology to all who were going to enter this week. You are right, the deadline IS Friday, and it was wrong of us to make this announcement before then. I guess the thinking was that we were trying to give those who already entered extra time to plan around it.

Second, we have talked it over after reading your replies, and decided we will reopen registration until Saturday. If we can get at least 20 participants, we will run the event anyway. So if you really want a chance at the money, please fax or e-mail registrations ASAP. You can do this from www.swordmasterseries.com

You may also direct any questions you have to:

warzonenc@hotmail.com
or
kblakeborough@cfcsite.com
or call
704-752-6353

Thanks all for your patience and willingness to participate.

-K

[Artisan]

...struggling to find something positive to say...

uh...well it was a good idea...

Hows that cliche go? Only one chance to make a first impression.

I guess the $2000 purse looks daunting in light of a potential $500-$1200 income on the entry fees.

[/potshot mode off]

[Ramrod]

On / Off

On / Off

Who's to know?

[wflaschka]

1) Served as a good proof of concept. The "pfl" approach can have a business strategy that is not unreasonable, on the face of it.

2) There is interest in this sort of thing, as well as people willing to paint their uniforms flamboyantly.

3) The worst case scenarios have been experienced. Everybody, including the organizers, have figured out many of the things that can go wrong.

Got 3! The time is ripe for a motivated self-starter with media/sales experience to create a lasting organization.

[oiuyt]

What concept was proven here? That running time clocks bouts a doable and won't ruin the sport, maybe. Anything about the event or its viability, certainly not.

The "pfl" approach can have a business strategy that is not unreasonable, on the face of it.

Only if that business strategy is massive subsidization by an individual. I don't see the reasonableness of this yet. Even without counting any costs from the television production (which wasn't done), no costs for the time involved by the organizers (likely volunteered, especially given that these same people ended up tossing in a bunch of money), and completely ignoring venue costs (no clue, perhaps the mall even donated the space hoping for an attraction). They had 12 entrants. $300. They had a prize of $1000 (and a promised prize of $1125). They also gave out 7 swords. Where's the reasonable business strategy?

I'm surprised that they had problems as quickly as they did. I predicted that the second event would be hard to find a full field for and the third would fail due to lack of participation. I expected that just drawing in local fencers and a few people willing to travel that 40 would be doable for a $25 entry fee. I missed badly on that estimation (could just be that I'm used to more populous areas, could be the complication entering the first event).

Can cash prize tournaments work? Yes, we have proof of that from other events (DitD, Hawaii Open, etc.). Did this prove anything about their concept to be valid?

I'll skip the interest bit, I think that we all knew people would be interested in the idea of getting paid to do the hobby they love.

As for worst case scenario, not even close. No liability waivers. This could have been much worse. The organizers almost made a point of ignoring suggestions that were being given in advance on how to improve the event. If they're not listening while actively working to improve their product to the point of viability, what makes you think that they, or anyone else, will use it as a learning experience and get the lessons now?

Positive things:
It showed some improvement over the PFL. The winner was paid (although, IIRC the winner was paid in the first event of the PFL as well, it was the next 7 events where that didn't happen).
It got fencing out into public in a mall. Granted that can be done fairly easily without dropping a grand and without smearing future prospects of a professional circuit, but...
Hopefully the local people used it to get a bunch of new bodies in the door. I have no clue whether or not this actually happened, but hopefully some of those spectators were interested enough to start classes or lessons or to get their son/neice/neigherboring kids/etc into a local club.

The above has a much more negative tone than I'm really looking for. I wish the series had continued. I was considering staying in Charlotte for an extra week this coming July after nationals in order to participate in the announced sabre event. I almost ended up going down to the first epee event until I heard that it was falling apart and the other people I was planning to carpool with were pulling out (they had already registered, I hadn't yet at the time). Sustainable tournaments are good for the sport. Sustainable tournaments with cash prizes are even better. Non-fencers get it when you say that you just won $100 in a tournament. I'm sure that being able to say you won $1000 makes a bigger impression. That said, I see few real positives in this particular implementation.

I look forward to seeing the reworked version. Maybe they'll do better than I expect. Maybe they'll even go back to the original threads here (those being handled by he-of-the-unspeakable-treachery) and look through the suggestions and questions presented.

-B :)

[picojeff]

I and a half-dozen fencers in this area are waiting to hear...

Is it on?

We all faxed our registration this week, but not one of us has received entry confirmation (last time it came within an hour). How many entries are there? Should we be making plans to drive down? Or should we be making alternate plans for the weekend.

I do sincerely hope it is on. There is growing interest in the event around here, and I think it might just take one more small push to get this thing rolling on its own.

[fencergal33]

Off....we recieved less than 10 registrants total. You guys said you had "a bunch of people" wanting to register......didn't see it. We tried. Sorry guys...
It's off.

-K

[picojeff]

Too bad it fell through.

I know 7 people, including myself, who sent in entries last week. In my book that counts as a bunch, so I figure I pulled my weight. But since we're all more-or-less local to DC, we're running our own little event now and saving a lot of driving.

I look forward to the next incarnation of the Swordmaster series, and I hope you will put it together soon!

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by picojeff
Too bad it fell through.

I know 7 people, including myself, who sent in entries last week. In my book that counts as a bunch, so I figure I pulled my weight. But since we're all more-or-less local to DC, we're running our own little event now and saving a lot of driving.

I look forward to the next incarnation of the Swordmaster series, and I hope you will put it together soon!

I get the feeling that 20 of you could have sent in your registrations and that would not have counted as a "bunch." I also find it amazing that there were only two signed up to fence before Picojeff and friends signed up.

Seems to me that the organizers are on the hook even if only 2 fencers show up! They made a lot of boasts about how this time would be different. They made lots of claims about how successfull the first event was. And they made a claim that they guarantee that the prize mony would be forthcoming.

THEN several days before the deadline for the second event they try to cancel "due to lack of interest." And now claim that less than ten contestants signed up. I find it awfully hard to believe that they only had two fencers signed up before Picojeff and friends signed up last week.

When they were making all thier claims i don't recall them ever saying that they would only pay out the prize money if more than ten registered.

Remember the 20 pre registered contestants that they would not give the names for at the beginning? What ever happened to those guys? I'll tell you what happened, they were FICTION!


They welched, plain and simple. They have no honor. They are liars.

[DanInMI]

Originally posted by wflaschka
1) Served as a good proof of concept. The "pfl" approach can have a business strategy that is not unreasonable, on the face of it.

..... The time is ripe for a motivated self-starter with media/sales experience to create a lasting organization.

That is one of the dumbest things that I have ever heard.

I am not saying that professional fencing can not be viable....but this is certainly no proof. Quite frankly, if televised robot fighting tournaments, like "Battlebots," is viable I don't see any reason that Televised Fencing tourneys should not be. But I would certainly NOT use this "business strategy" as a model.

In fact, the Battlebots, model might even be a good example to pattern after. They shoot the entire season in one or two days. It is really just one tourney, broken down into several half hour episodes. It does not seem to me that it would be that hard to get several very good fencers together for ONE tourney with prize money. Then edit the footage into 30 minute or 60 minute episodes for television. No gimmicks needed. Just good fencing, a good set (not a mall,) good quality production values, and entertaining commentary.

Probably not going to make prime time NBC sports, but maybe late night cable.

[arcon]

Money can be and is an issue with any event. Especially something new. Its easy to complain about an entry fee and an empty weekend but if it were
your money that you were losing because numbers were low.
Can you really say you wouldnt have done the same thing?
Its a bit easier to put on a tourny and give a medal its much harder when you figure in major prize money for top contenders.
I for one appreciate their effort. Calling them liars is a bit below
the belt. Their attitude was positive their results were negative.
Thats about it
You dont know and may never know the inside situation concerning event organizers and what they did or didnt do.
Their biggest mistake may have been operating on a shoe string
budget....i dont know. If so, then maybe they should have waited
If you look at it strickly from a business point of view ,theyshould have had the finances in place for the entire season.....but....
having been one of those that trys not to have money stop a dream .having faith that you can sell it to those that partisipate and finance it in the end ,is just plain guts.
Not all of you have it. You just call us that do,liars.

[CarlKnoch]

Wasn't there something said early on that the money to run the event was already accounted for, as well as the prize money? They had it all taken care of and all they wanted were bodies, no matter how many? Nothing about, "if there aren't enough fencers, we can't run it"...

I'll have to go digging through old posts now.....