How to keep our teen/college fencers as adult fencers

[JEC]

This is an interesting problem that is clearly in the horizon for US fencing. It probably has been a problem, but unrecognized due to having more youth fencers joining the ranks.


Fencing is a sport that has grown mostly by increasing the number of youth fencers. The fastest group of people as members is the 11-17 year old group. How do we keep them in fencing? As these kids go to college, some find fencing clubs in college or varsity teams if lucky or extremely talented.

A key for survival and growth of USFA and USFCA is to foster college clubs. What are the needs of those fencers? How to start clubs in the intramural gyms? USFA should develop a packet, kind of how to ... , business plan, etc. for these kids to stay in fencing and in the USFA. Lower rates for college kids will also help.

The second group with special needs is the college graduates. How can we keep them interested in the sport? I couldn't afford it years ago. How can we keep it affordable. Perhaps, as I was talking to Wendell Kubik recently, coaches should offer a basic floor fee for recent college graduates and aim for adult fencing at least "one night" per week. Those guys are paying their bills (barely) and can't afford stuff and the disposable income. Perhaps no lessons, but open bouting for $30-50/month. while the youth fencers have parents that are further along the economic scale and are more likely to have income to pay for private lessons, etc.

What are your opinions?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

I think there was an article on this in the last American Fencing magazine, or maybe the issue before it. It was on the 5 stages of fencing and how after college is when a lot fencers drop out.

[MyraTrue]

I started fencing in college- the division I grew up in has far too little fencing. I had never heard nor seen of fencing until I got to University.

I've been lucky enough to end up in a semester off working for a University with a club. I've got somewhere to fence, and the fees are minimal. But I know once I graduate from gradschool, I'm not sure where I'll be able to fence. Fees ARE a major issue, and I hope I'll be able to continue...

Oh, stay a student forever, and I might solve my problems.

[wflaschka]

I've been thinking recently about how to best structure fees, for tournaments and for a club. Ideally, dedicated but non-wealthy fencers wouldn't be driven away by the fees -- but wealthy or parent-subsidized fencers would make up for the cost.

The question came up because on Saturday, I'm driving a slew of college fencers to their first tournament. $40 USFA registration, $15 tournament registration... all to fence 6 bouts. No wonder we have a hard time getting people to tournaments!

The sad fact is, you can't charge people based on their income. If you go too far with "outreach scholarships" or student discounts, it starts to be unfair to fencers paying the full price for the same resources.

[lochinvar]

I stopped fencing after college because I didn't have anywhere to pursue it.

The bald fact is that collegiate fencers might end up anywhere in the world once they graduate, and unless you live in the East Coast, West Coast, or Great Lakes areas there just aren't that many venues available.

I think that despite the cost we'd probably keep a lot of collegiate fencers in the sport if they had salles readily available to them once they leave college.

Of course, this becomes a 'chicken and egg' problem...

[broncofencer]

The other problem is that after the Columbine high school incident many Universities took a very tight no weapons policy and fencing weapons are often included. It took us 5 years of work to get our agreement with the university and we still have minor problems. If the university won't help out collegiate fencing dies very quickly not to mention the constant membership/leadership turnover. The USFA needs to develop and help with all these arguments that administrators have with allowing fencing on campus facts figures and everything else they could want to know since most are unfamiliar with the sport.

[remise]

What I see in my area is the lack of a club open on weekends. I know that some clubs DO offer weekend hours, but in Maryland......it's little more than a dream. I see fencers dropping out as early as high school when their homework load begins to cut into what would normally be their fencing class. In my club, I saw 1/2 of a class do this when they hit high school. I know because I asked.

The most frequent complaint from the college students is the same - homework and JOBS - during the week. I find it interesting that the Maryland clubs complain about membership, but the coaches don't want to open the club on weekends when many of the fencers would "pack" the place. But, let me reiterate, this is only what I hear in my neck of the woods.

[Wizardly]

Bronco:

Go after the popular sports. Baseball teaches kids to use clubs with a great deal of precision, and to throw objects with a high degree of accuracy at dangerous speeds. Football teaches kids how to take another human being down, how to chase them down and knock them off their feet. Wrestling teaches them how to fight! Cleets, projectiles, weapons, group violence. And then you could always point out the statistics on high school students using actual court swords to commit violent act...somewhere << skills used in the bread and butter sports. Fencing "weapons" are no more dangerous than tennis rackets, ski poles, or heavily laden book bags. We're way ahead of the game on football, baseball, wrestling, field hockey, hockey, and people with cars!

And if the college has a forensics department, you could always seea bout getting some testimony about the damange done with a broken epee versus a baseball bat. Get the police to testify about the number of muggings that occured at saber-point.

Of course, this might backfire and the college or high school will outlaw the wearing of belts (which are always handy and could easily be turned into whips and strangulation devices).

/rant about stupid people in decision making positions.

[JEC]

Problems that I seen:

- Limited number of clubs open during weekends

- Limited number of clubs open late during weekdays

- Limited income from young graduates

- Attrition due to work, spouse, time or economic reasons

Perhaps, the USFA could do a plan to keep a special membership status (no magazine) for Young Adults (18-25) with a 25% discount only for membership (not for NACs or other registrations)

The USFA and USFCA encourage coaches to offer:

1) One weekly session for adult bouting of either:
late day (6-9pm for adults) or Saturday morning (9-1pm) practice

2) A basic package for young adults:
for example a monthly floor fee of $50.00

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by wflaschka

The sad fact is, you can't charge people based on their income.

Communist!


But seriously, folks---the income thing is only a part of it. New college graduates are suddenly faced with a life-change, accompanied by a new set of priorities. Job-hunting can be both stressful and horribly time-consuming, leaving neither energy nor attention to spare on pastimes...or if there is any left over, it goes into things like dating instead of mere fencing . Once the job is found, there is often a perceived need to make it one's whole life, at least for a while---until one has "proved" oneself and the career is secure. And the longer you are away from fencing, the more it recedes into the background of your life, the less likely many people are to return to it. Now start throwing things like marriage ( often to someone with zero understanding of or interest in fencing ), kids ( talk about time-consumption! ), buying a house, promotions, transfers...it all forces things like fencing into the recesses of the mind and the bottom of the priority list, for all but a few of the most "hooked" of us.

I don't know that those facts of life CAN be overcome.

[JEC]

Inq.
I do agree and let's face it, I did not fence for over 15 years before my son asked me about "swordfighting lessons", and he hooked me back. Nevertheless, the fencing organizations should see this as an opportunity. We are not going to be able to change life for these kids, but are we doing the most we can to keep them into the sport? I thing there is no concerted effort to help retention into the sport.

[Mo]

When you look at the life of a serious fencing competitor it is kind of easy to see why they drop out of sight for a while or even forever after college.
Competitive fencing has a momentum that takes over the kid's lives if they do well. There is a lot of pressure on them, expectations too. Lots of the pressure is from the kids themselves with their perfectionistic nature, (which makes them a good fencer.) Smart thinking fencers tend to be way smart kids and perfectionism is part of their makeup.

If they start at 9-10 and begin competeing right about that time, they can spend 8 years before going to college running around the country and fencing. When they get old enough for World Cups they spend time not only running around the country but flying around the world to keep the fencing going. In between meets they are trying to keep up with their education and school work. (They are not the same thing.)

Families that are not wealthy yet supporting a fencer tend to have money issues that make former activities such as raft trips, camping, diving, sailing etc all a thing of the past. Now the vacations are Summer Nationals or a few stolen days added onto an airline ticket in Europe.

They really only have time to socialize with other fencers. Getting out with non fencing friends is a special ocassion. Kids get tired!!
It is no wonder they fall out of the sport when they get older.

To be a top notch fencer they have to work out in addition to regular fencing practice. It is an intense toll on a young body.

Fencing makes life abnormal! Maybe older fencers want to stop and smell the flowers....

[Inquartata]

Yes, some of us older fencers long for the sort of life you describe, Mo. Fencing, fencing, and more fencing!

Now if I could only find someone to support me while I'm doing it...

[danp]

Mo makes some good points - to continue on that train of thought, there's also a psychological aspect in returning to fencing. When someone has competed in a sport at a very high level, it's difficult to come back as a "recreational" participant. It's frustrating not to be able to achieve past highs, and many young athletes move on to other sports or endeavors to escape previous stigma and pressures.

One way to help bring athletes back to the sport could be a well defined and easy path for them to teach others. Through instructing others, they have a much higher probability to rediscover the fun of fencing, and at very least to keep skills honed and ties to the community.

When a person graduates college, they are forever hunted as an alumni for money, time, and whatever else they can give. (Mainly money).

Perhaps the USFA could maintain a list of "fencing alumni", and tap that resource as judges, teachers and organizers.

-Dan

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally posted by Inquartata

But seriously, folks---the income thing is only a part of it. New college graduates are suddenly faced with a life-change, accompanied by a new set of priorities. Job-hunting can be both stressful and horribly time-consuming, leaving neither energy nor attention to spare on pastimes...or if there is any left over, it goes into things like dating instead of mere fencing . [/quote]


wait.... there's a diference between fencing and dating????

; P

[Zelda]

Ok, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth.
I started fencing at 20. Started competing nationally at about 23.
I finished Uni at 23 and started temp work. Went to London to study at 23 and came home at 24. Moved interstate just before my 25th birthday. In between all that I have travelled O/S a few times and fenced almost continously.
I wouldnt be able to fence at all if my parents didnt still support me. I may be living away from home and working but its hard. I am looking at a min. of 2-300 dollars for a return plane ticket to the mainland. Add to that entry fees, teh fact where I am living currently has no state assoc and thus I have to enrol through my parents home state and accomadation/lessons etc its difficult.
The problem is once you leave Uni/College and the support system which is there, finding your feet is difficult. Especially if (as many young people do) you spread your wings and move away from everything.
To keep us in the sport? Simple, offer support and advice. Tell us where we can fence in our new location, let us know who to contact to join the state association etc etc. Offer us discounts to enter comps.

[JEC]

Brad,
Having read the agenda and minutes of the BoD a few times, it seems to me that this topic is not been discussed at the USFA level, perhaps privately, but not in a formalized manner. What is your view about this subject? What happens to your students when they leave UMass? What are the elements that keep them in the sport for those few and the reasons that some get away from it? What USFA can do to retain your college kids?

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by MyrddinsPrecint

wait.... there's a diference between fencing and dating????

; P

Couldn't prove it by me...but so I have heard.

[cowpaste]

From the viewpoint of a college student....

Right now I am a senior in college. I starting fencing this February, and I love it. That was last semester. This semester has been much harder on me. I am actually quite afraid that any future jobs I have will turn out to be as stressful as my current semester. I've only get to fence maybe 4 hours a week, and sometimes I have to skip classes to study for tests or finish projects. To make matter worse, I really like girls.

If I finish college and get a 8 to 5 job, I probably won't be able to fence much anymore. Weekends will be dedicated to those evil females. Weekdays will be dedicated to recovering from having my heart broken by evil females. This weekly cycle shall continue until I crack or get laid off...or get married, divorced and heartbroken even more....

Maybe I will leave some time on the weekends to fence. All I need to do now is pay a $270 membership fee along with a $70 monthly fee. I'll need to forget about those dance lessons I've always wanted to take. Thai musical instrument lessons, foreign languages, and the movies will have to go away too.

[2Sirius]

Don't give up, Cowpaste. I run three businesses, have 4 kids (three are triplets under the age of two), a beautiful, wonderful wife, and I still find time to fence at the club a few hours a week, and practice footwork at home, and take guitar lessons. My wife and I also go to movies, parties, and actually have a social life. It can be done.

(For those of you who think I always sound a little stressed on this board, see above)

Can't help you on the money, though.