Re: [CFML] Digest Number 672 - Fencing.Net Discussion
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Old 10-13-2003, 08:00 PM   #1
William Black
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Re: [CFML] Digest Number 672

> new to this site, have been sport fencing couple of years,
> previously Karate so interested in fencing as an actual European
> martial art. I Have a number of questions if anyone has any info or
> views;
> 1)French & Itailian styles, Don't suppose there was a british style?


The may have been an 'English' style. But weather you'd call it 'fencing'
or not is an interesting point. Try and get hold of Silver's 'Paradox of
Defence' which should be on the net somewhere.

> 2) Which was a better style and why?


The one that works for you.

> 3) Read a couple of documents off the net supposed to be copy of
> original fencing manuals, difficult to understand and visualize
> without pics, What are good books etc?


I hate to have to say this, but it works best if you find someone (or even
better a club) to play with.

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three

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Old 10-13-2003, 08:00 PM   #2
truthsword@aol.com
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Re: [CFML] Digest Number 672


Dear All,

Regarding the raised question,

> 1)French & Itailian styles, Don't suppose there was a british style?


There was a methodology of british backsword and particular systems that
developed from that, but the foil play of the C19th was almost exclusively
introduced from the French schools.
As well as Angelo in London, Domenico knew a master by the name of Joseph
Roland who came over from France to teach in London in the second half of the
C18th.
In Edinburgh, it was Domenico`s brother, John Xavier, who opened a salle
teaching French foil, which was then resurrected in the early C19th by Joseph
Rolands nephew, George Roland, who also taught French foil. This Academy was
continued throughout the C19th in Edinburgh, and was regarded as the best Academy
of its day, with French foil taught by three successive generations of fencing
masters from the same family, namely George Roland, his son Captain George
Roland, and the Capt.`s son Henry James Roland.
The French connection was retained in Edinburgh even after this Academy
ended, with Leon Crosnier, father of Roger Crosnier, teaching in the city.
As we know, Roger was one of the leading foilists of his day that was also
one of the founders of the British Academy of Fencing.

The Academy was based on the traditional French methods, but simplified some
of the terminology in order to make fencing more accessible. This became the
basis for what was continued to be regarded as accepted teaching throughout
the UK from then on.

Curiously, the Rolands were the last of the fencing masters in Edinburgh to
be teaching backsword as well as foil, which was based upon traditional
British methodology (even the Angelo system was, with the addition of a couple of
his own actions only).

The only fencing master to be recognised as devising a method to counter the
French school of smallsword is Donald McBane, but the general trend for
French methods being taught throughout the UK continued throughout a period where
effective countermeasures were less essential, given that the frequency of
duels was a fraction of what is used to be by the C19th.

Yours Very Truly,

Paul Macdonald


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