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jonathangreen · 10-11-2003, 03:11 PM

Hi All,

I'm at the world champs here in Havana and we've just got word that a chilean fencer was killed in a nine story plunge from his hotel.

Does anyone know what happened or anyone who might.

Any contacts with the Chilean fencing team?

I'm a writer here covering the tournament.

For any help I would be indebted.

All replies in cofidence if neccessary.

Thanks,

Jonathan

www.jonathan-green.com

veeco · 10-11-2003, 10:37 PM

I don't know much than what was said on TV here today, which is basically that one member of the Chilean men's foil team fell from 11 stories and died the day before the competition. They were supposed to fence the Russians, but obviously they did not show up and forfeited.

Everyone at the competition site observed a minute of silence in memory of him before the final of the men's foil team event.

Apparently Cuban police was saying that it was an accident.

I did not quite catch the fencer's name, so don't take this as the truth, but from the list I found on the cuban website it seems it was Felipe ALVEAR.

JEC · 10-12-2003, 01:27 AM

http://www.esgrimamex.com/cgi-bin/ul...c;f=8;t=000032

According to www.esgrimaMEX.com, the FIE had the following press release:

The FIE was informed during the morning of October 11th of the death of the Chilean foilist Rodrigo MUNOZ ALVEAL of 22 years of age, which occurred during the night from Friday to Saturday. His death was due to a fall from the 11th floor from the hotel where he was staying. The Cuban authorities believe his death was accidental.
Deeply sadden, the world of fencing send their most sincere condonlences to the fencer relatives and its national delegation.
FIE

nahouw · 10-12-2003, 03:15 AM

I read a report from a Chilean newspaper that said that he was depressed, and that might have contributed to this unfortunate incidence. I wonder where his teammates were, and if they knew about his depression when this unfortunate incident happened.

pkt · 10-13-2003, 03:14 AM

Pls do not read anything disrespectful about what I'm going to write.

I for one am glad to hear that, judged on what's been written thus far, that the death is
1. not fencing related.
2. not on the piste.
3. caused by his being depressed.

In the Vancouver papers they are reporting the increase in cases of the mentally sick people committing "suicide by police". i.e. they attack the police with a weapon. Faced with "fear for thier own lives" and without alternatives other than their sidearem, police officers ended up shooting and killing these mentally sick people thus causing irreparable damage to all concerned.

Thankfully, there are now alternatives such as tasers and bean-bag rifles which can stop the attackers literally in their track.

PK

whtouche · 10-13-2003, 02:28 PM

Suicide by police isnt a hugely new phenomenon, and Im not sure at all how you're relating it to this incident. First of all, he was depressed but we don't even know if he was suicidal, and the biggest connection was a newspaper saying it "might have contributed" - nowhere does it say "this was suicide", and even so that wouldn't be grounds whatsoever for you to say with relief "well, at least it wasnt THIS KIND of suicide".
Useless.

graphixaddict · 10-13-2003, 04:23 PM

Wow, i never knew the russian's were that serious about fencing. Miss the parry, or swim with the fishes its your choice....
On a more serious note, thats pretty awful. :-/
Graphix

Wizardly · 10-13-2003, 09:37 PM

Point taken regarding his mental state. It would be nice if the news reported the facts and not speculation. We know the fall caused the death, we don't know what caused the fall; if anybody knows, please post so that at least the speculation can end.

I'd just like to caution against reading into or stigmatizing whatever mental condition he may or may not have had. The stigmatization of anyone with a disease really only makes that illness all the more harmful.

The topic of this post is a bit misleading too. Perhaps it is good newsprint in that it grabs one's attention, but I personally dislike it. I'm certain the majority of us have our hearts jump into our throats when we hear of a serious fencing-related injury, particularly a death on the strip. I'm sure most of us don't like contemplating our mortality in relation to our sport. The sense of fraternity is uncommon in sport and uncommonly strong in ours; I'm sure the majority of us are also a little shaken by his loss.

Inquartata · 10-13-2003, 09:49 PM

Yes, we have no grounds to conclude that it was suicide. He might have slipped. A railing might have given way ( this is Cuba after all, a Communist economy, things may not be in the best of repair ). He may have been drinking and/or horseplaying with someone. We can't know.

edew · 10-13-2003, 11:14 PM

You sure it's not some conspiracy or a coverup on his death?

MikeHarm · 10-14-2003, 12:23 AM

The other stories I've read where something like this happened it almost universally involved drunken horseplay near an open window.

Inquartata · 10-14-2003, 12:45 AM

Hey, Eric, not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, ya know! Sheesh! You people!

OCTAVIA · 10-14-2003, 01:24 AM

I am sorry to hear this. How would it be if I requested a small memorial toba in his behalf by next month?

I'll bet he was just nervous and slipped off, I can't believe it, it's horrible. I was on the 24th floor on Sept 24th while I was relocating and I felt uneasy about standing too close to the railings. Take care everyone, I'm out of fencing for three months now, just walking and jogging a bit now. I feel sad, but a little better about things.

veeco · 10-14-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by edew
You sure it's not some conspiracy or a coverup on his death?

Hmm. After all, they HAD to fence the Russians on the next day... Who knows?

arcon · 10-14-2003, 05:26 PM

Speculation a cousin to fiction doesnt make for good reading on any
subject other than theory and how respectful can it be in the case of a death. Its an accident unless
proven otherwise. All we really know and it may
be all we ever know is the world of fencing lost a fencer.
Respect his memory and family and let it be. Hopefully he had
some very good times in the sport in his short time here. If
everyone committed suicide that went through a bout of depression ill bet a third of our society would be lost.

"live long and fence"

arcon

Inquartata · 10-14-2003, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by veeco
Hmm. After all, they HAD to fence the Russians on the next day... Who knows?

Now, if there were any Air France employees in the room...

hello? · 10-15-2003, 01:55 PM

Who cares if he jumped or fell or had a heart attack or was pushed? For the parents, siblings, friends, and teammates of this 22 year old, life will never be the same. My heart goes out to them. I can't believe anyone can joke about this!

JEC · 10-15-2003, 03:22 PM

well said!

Peach · 10-15-2003, 03:26 PM

If we can't joke about death, sex, taxes, or other tragedies

, there won't be much left to joke about. Life is short and none of us gets out of it alive.

JEC · 10-15-2003, 04:47 PM

Peach, I agree with 2 1/2 out of 3. One thing is to joke about death or dying, and another is to joke about a specific individual dying in specific circumstances. Joking is a release of our fears. Making a joke about any horrific specific tragedy crosses my line, and I think the line of appropriateness of most people. The extreme is evident. It feels inappropriate to joke about the deaths of 9-11. It is just not a subject to joke about. The obvious example was the public sentiment about the politically incorrect host.