the lights

[its_me_mango]

i would like to see the colors on the lights change for fencing. i think the red green thing is terrible, i realize it's because they're opposite on the color wheel and would be easier to see for the judges, but is there anything else we can think of besides that?
primary colors: red, yellow, blue, green
secondary colors: i forget...purple, etc?

orange:blue off tartet - white
tourquoise range -off target white
purple:green - off target

[lochinvar]

Mango, the color wheel is like this:

Primary: red, yellow, blue
Secondary: orange, green, purple

Green is not one of the primary colors, although we treat it as if it were--I don't know why.

The color opposites are: red/green, orange/blue, yellow/purple. I frankly don't see any difference...the others would look just as dorky, I think. The only combination that appeals to me is yellow/purple. (I hate Christmas decorations for this reason--I think red and green look awful together.)

[edew]

First off, there's primary LIGHT, and there's primary COLOR. COLOR is for things like painting and such. LIGHT is what we would be dealing with in the case of scoring machines. In the case of LIGHT, the primary colors are red, GREEN, and blue, not yellow.

Second, the colors are based on the colored lens, or in the case of some Favero or Eclipse machines, the available LEDs, which are usually red or green. Getting mauve or orange or lavender LEDs is difficult, to say the least.

Third, while different colors may be more (or least) appealing, I personally don't think any other color will be any more or less marketable to the general audience than the current red/green(/white) combination.

If one wants to make things more marketable, maybe the lights should be shaped like an arrow, so that when it lights up, it might look like:

--->
for a touch to the right, and like:

---|
for an off-target touch to the right.

[Peach]

I think a jack-in-the-box should pop out of the machine on the side of the fencer who just scored. And the machine should honk, as many times as the score of the fencer on that side. And a little spray of confetti should come out.

Also for off-targets in foil there should be a raspberry noise and the action should not stop.

[Inquartata]

I think foil should get a rasperry, period.

Ahem. But seriously, folks! I think the red-green thing is based on research showing that these two colors are the most easily told apart, even by the color-blind; which is why they are used on traffic signals as well...

[its_me_mango]

i like the replies, i think this deserves further consideration, the real reason i bring this up and i hestitate to do so because the barrage will be amazing, but what the heck... red means STOP and green means GO in american. think a-bout it.

[latenight]

Inquartata-

Unless your red green color blind.

People with this affliction just know the order the traffic lights are stacked in.

Just think, the poor SOBS can't tell a red M&M from a green one.

How about we shoot off firework fountains A La WWF?

And we can approach the strip to theme music and..........nevermind, I'm just all pumped up for Celebrity Boxing

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: latenight ]</p>

[its_me_mango]

sorry, it was the a-bout.
but i'm serious, i think it has some kind of psychological impact on the fencers.

[Prometheus]

For the population that is not R/G colour-blind red and green are the two hightest contrast colors. This is the reason that Audi makes its panel red and that green laser pointers are coming into fashon. The same for traffic lights. So, for the colours of the scoring lights to have the higest contrast for the largest portion of the population red and green are the choice. (Besides, I belive the precentage of the pouplation that is profoundly colour-blind is very small, and the colors on the boxes are vibrant.)

[shyHeidi]

It's not like the lights blink on for a split second and then disappear. The contrast thing isn't that much of an issue, as long as you can tell it's not off-target, I mean, the light is on one side for one person, and the other side for the other. The different colors make it easier but having the absolute maximum contrast doesn't seem like it would be that much of a big deal to me. Besides that, I always did think the whole red/green thing was weird, too. I mean, as you said, mango, red is stop, which seems to say "haha, stop, you're not going anywhere", and green being go, seems like a positive thing, like you're moving ahead in the game. If anything, I would think red would be for off-target, and green would be for on-target... although then there'd be the issue of both fencers having the same color, but I mean at least they'd be equally praised when they got a touch...

[fred]

The FIE made the lights red green and white to humor the Italians

Interesting thought on the red/green colorblind thing, I've always wondered what they actually see. Does it all look green/red, or does it look 'white'?

[Inquartata]

LOL, fred!

No, red is the color of blood, so you can't have that for off-target...see, it just depends on what you associate with the colors personally, and everyone is different in that respect. They had to choose something, though.

[Methix]

[quote]Originally posted by latenight:
<strong>Unless your red green color blind.

People with this affliction just know the order the traffic lights are stacked in.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What about places where traffice lights are in a row horizontally? That's kind of a scary thought...

[Mergs]

Being someone that is re-green deficient (and having lost a chance at a Navy scholarship MANY years ago because of it) the problem is not being able to distinguish red from green as in traffic lights or other close in light sources. The problem is at a distance. When as a kid and an avid space and astronomy buff I always wondered why everyone said Mars was red. Couldn't ever identify it. Also realized that sailing at night, I couldn't recognize red or green running lights on boats at a distance either (hence the reason for not getting the scholarship, along with the fact that I have trouble differentiating some colors used in electrical wiring and componenets). The other problem, as I alluded to, is that I have trouble with subtle differences in shades of colors involving red or green.

So not to worry about we chromatically challanged individuals running red lights because we can't tell the difference. We run them on purpose! Or being directors. Change the colors to some of the ones that have been bandied about and then we'll cite the ADA!

[ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: Mergs ]</p>

[BarryTice]

Somehow it seems when I hook up to the green side of the strip, I always end up fencing in a red-light district. Perhaps I should do more hand-work?

[D'Artagnan1673]

[quote]Originally posted by Peach:
<strong>I think a jack-in-the-box should pop out of the machine on the side of the fencer who just scored. And the machine should honk, as many times as the score of the fencer on that side. And a little spray of confetti should come out.

Also for off-targets in foil there should be a raspberry noise and the action should not stop.</strong><hr></blockquote>


LOL!!!! That was so funny that I almost choked to death on my coffee!

[lochinvar]

[quote]Originally posted by Peach:
<strong>I think a jack-in-the-box should pop out of the machine on the side of the fencer who just scored. And the machine should honk, as many times as the score of the fencer on that side. And a little spray of confetti should come out.

Also for off-targets in foil there should be a raspberry noise and the action should not stop.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Peach, if an off-target doesn't stop the action then we don't need a light OR a sound for it. And I am all in favor of off-targets not stopping the action, by the way...

More years ago than I wish to mention I had the idea for light bars on either side of the box, like the light bars they used to use in basketball to keep track of the fouls against a team or individual.

You could have a stack-up of five lights, one of which would light along with the valid target light. These lights would stay lit, allowing the spectators and the director to have a constant indicator of the score.

For DE bouts add two smaller, differently colored lights to stand for groups of five, then run through the lightstack three times.

Maybe it wouldn't be very useful, but I think it would be fun and enable the onlookers to better keep track of the score in a bout. As it is now, if you're out of earshot from the director you don't know who's winning a lot of the time...

[oiuyt]

At Johns Hopkins we had a set of scoring towers custom made for us that included that feature (as well as acting as light extensions, having lights to denote that a fencer had received a yellow card at some point in the bout, and at least one additional thing IIRC).

-B

[Peach]

[quote]Originally posted by lochinvar:
<strong>

Peach, if an off-target doesn't stop the action then we don't need a light OR a sound for it. </strong><hr></blockquote>


But it would be funny as all get-out and would do wonders for amusing the spectators, dahling. I think they oughta have off-target raspberries for sabre, too. And sirens for floor touches in epee.

[D'Artagnan1673]

I find peache's ideas very amusing, adding a very humoroustouch.

However, and this argument has been made in other discussions, I think that there still should be a halt of the action on an off-target touch.


I have argued the following:

Fencer A attacks with priority, but hits off to the shoulder or arm. Fencer B does not parry, but counterattacks and hits on target. With the off-target light taken out, the invalid attack with get the touch.

It has been argued back to me that we should all work harder to hit on target, a sentiment that I agree with. However, there still will be instances when valid attacks land off target.

For instance:

My coach is a lefty, I have to really work to get him to fall for a feint. I like hitting him right in 6. The best location to hit in 6 is right on his shoulder, a fairly precise touch. There have been times when I've narrowly missed, hitting right below the lame'. This attack was valid, I wasn't trying to hit off target to stop the action, something that I think is a substiture for good skill. This attack should still be a valid attack and halt the action.