Creative way to deal with problem student?

[Feanor]

Greetings All!

I was just curious to find out if anyone had seen creative and effective ways that their fencing instructors dealt with disruptive younger students.

In the class there is a young man about aged 14 who appears to be enrolled simply so his parents might have them out of their hair for an hour 2 nights a week! That's actually conjecture on my part, but the number of times this stud-braceleted-head-banger-shirt-wearing-very-short-attention-spanned individual disrupts the rest of the class with weird questions like "When do we get our swords?" and the constant interruptions of the instructor during verbal instructions along with almost complete disregard for instructions given "Please make certain you always point the foil tip downward when not fencing" was followed by him waving the foil around at others like he was some sort of Frodo Baggins on Ecstacy, well, it makes me and I'm certain, the rest of the class, uneasy.

The instructor has had to say directly to him "please do not interrupt" on a number of ocassions and other times has responded to his questions with "If you had been paying attention to what I was saying 2 minutes ago..." (Because during the instructions he had his back turned and was jabbing at the wall with his foil)

I'm thinking that a little more of this and he will be brought aside and given more forceful instruction or his parents might be informed, etc...

In everyone elses experience, how have you seen your instructors and coaches deal with disruptive situations like overly fidgety youngsters?

Thanks!

[Duelist]

If his only goal is to wave his sword like Frodo Baggins on Ecstacy, revoke his bouting privileges and have him do simple technique drills. If he is serious about fencing it will straighten him out, if not he will most likely leave.

[JEC]

Even better remedy ... Footwork!!!!!
what a devil

[Kismet]

Originally posted by JEC
Even better remedy ... Footwork!!!!!
what a devil

devil?? I actually LIKE footwork and drills. Yes, I am strange, I know that.

[JAySE SUiCiDE]

whenever I'm in group lessons, I'm the only kid wanting to do footwork and not play games..

another good one, is make him "sit" against a wall, with his back up against it and his knees at a 90 degree angle..like he's sitting on a chair that's against a wall...it's hell on your thighs..you can make him do it for a minute and let him rest for 30 seconds, or whatever you want to..that usually straightens any kids out at my club.

hope that made sense.


~Jes

[damianip]

Inform his parents.

If that doesn't work, toss him out. You're there to instruct, he's there to learn. If he doesn't get it, why should the rest of the class be penalized?

Paolo

[westcoastsabre]

I'd agree with taking away his bouting privileges, if he really likes fencing and will stick with it, then he will miss bouting. If he isn't gonna stick with it anyways, its not a huge loss for him.

[2Sirius]

I would have to agree with damianip. In other martial arts classes I have been involved with, the problem students were not tolerated. The longer you tolerate the problem children, the more it demoralizes your good students, and then the good ones leave. Eventually, you are left with only the problem people in your class.

Your fencing instructor is not there to be a moral guide to this punk. He's there to teach to the ones who want to learn. Why should the good ones be punished for being tolerant?

[vegan]

HMMMM.
Well at my old club we used to put them in lessons, if the wanted to continue, and if not, just kick them out . . . a little harsh, but it worked.
It seems that in the club I am in now, no one does anything about it- the coaches are there to teach, and seem to think that behavior is up to the absent parents for the most part (ARGH).
Cheers,
B.

[epeefencer74]

We usually make students with an attitude probelm do laps or pushups for each offence. The number of laps or pushups is prescribed by the seriousness of the offence.

[danp]

He could have serious problems that are just beyond your control - if that's the case, just let the parents know he needs to move on.

If he's just a normal bored boisterous kid testing limits, keep him after one night and talk directly to him while his parents wait and watch - maybe give him a short private lesson. Then just ask the kid straight up if he wants to be in your class! If he does, lay down some simple rules. If not, give him a chance to bow out and let the parents deal with it.

Sometimes letting a kid like that know you care is enough. Some of the best tennis players I coached in juniors were a bit "troubled" to start with, but once I spent just a little extra time with them, they worked harder than anyone I've ever seen.

Regards,
-Dan

[cowpaste]

I don't know if this will help or not, but when I did martial arts a few years back, I walked into the room a bit arrogant. I wasn't troublesome or anything, but I clearly remember being overconfident. Well, after getting my *** whooped a few times while sparring, I learned my place. Maybe you could fix this kid by beating him really badly. Show him that that he has poor form and poor technique, and that he needs to listen to you to get better.

[Feanor]

Thanks everyone for the replies! A wide variety of advice... I just wanted to clarify that I am not the instructor but just another student trying hard to learn

My main gripe is that when the instructor gets visibly irritated, it makes everyone uncomfortable EXCEPT the person that SHOULD be feeling uncomfortable! A kind of unfortunate irony...

But I realize also that there is youthful exuberance involved and to give up on the kid before having a good go at maybe improving his listening skills would be premature...

I just hope those skill within him improve sooner than later

Thanks again!

Feanor

[Popper]

I dont think that "punishing" him by making him do all sorts of exercises like doing laps or pushups will solve anything. He probably has an interrest in fencing, if his parents were only interrested in getting rid of him for a while fencing seems like an odd choise.

My proposal is the following:

Take the student aside and talk to him. Explain to him that this is a fencing class where YOU are the teacher. And that he is supposed to do as you tell the class, no exceptions. And tell him that there is no time for questions that isnt directly related to the task at hand. Also tell him that if he goes on like he does now no one will want to fence with him and the result will be that he wont learn fencing.

Obviously he has some kind of attention disorder so reaching him is only possible by giving clear and direct instructions from the beginning to the end. In cases like these it is EXTREMELY important to be precise in your instructions.

I hope this will help you

[JAySE SUiCiDE]

im having the same situation, xept the guy whos annoying me is actually just hitting on me, and he isnt doing it to anyone else.. but thats a different story..

if i were you, i'd ask a couple of friends that were also in the class if they thought this kid was annoying..if they say yes, you can talk to the instructor privately about how this kids annoying you and your friends, and that instructor getting annoyed makes the other kids uncomfortable..even if your friends arent too annoyed by him, i'd still go up to the coach and tell him that you too think the kid's annoying, so atleast the coach won't think hes the only one being annoyed..

or something like that...

good luck.
~Jes

[Talyn]

*It's times like these you have to hang him in the public... but If you're not willing to go that far you can always completely humiliate him infront of people (last resort)... Say something like:
"Look (insert name here) you do realise you're a joke don't you? 'Then get him to show the class what he can do'

1. If he does : make fun of every single move he does or tries to do

2. If he doesn't : continue with the verbal battering and finish with telling him that after today he will be trespassing on private property if he comes back. (No refunds)



I know that all seems a bit harsh but there was this one kid I really hated at my school and would just slash other students and stuff. Eventually he whacked me *almost* in the eye... slightly lower when i was presiding and I was about 3 meteres away from him.

-Then again I was really pissed off at that kid since all he ever does is give people (including the coach attitude)

*Of course I didn't handle it perfectly well... after he almost whacked my in the eye I took off the guys mask and decked him once before the other peopel dragged me off him

Anyway... If you ( or your coach) are not into encounters like that then you can ask him to leave then when he says "nah it's ok I'll stay" say "That wasn't a question (you can add in certain names here) now get out"

[epeefencer74]

The laps and pushups are just summary punishments. Counseling is provided after.

If the kid keeps up his B.A. We will convene a disciplinary committee to mete out more severe punishments, which include, revoking of bouting privelages, revoking of competition privelages, revoking of lessons, flogging, and eventually expulsion from the club.

We used to have a system of fines as punishments, but found that these days the brats seem to have money to toss and it doesn't affect them much. However we have found their fitness to be lacking and therefore physical punishments serve a 2 fold purpose, physical fitness and reprimand.

We have found that counseling without the threat of punishment doesn't work very well. Only 10% of the boys respond to just counseling. However with the added dimension of punishments 90% of the boys improve just after one session.

This club is a high school club and the kids pay nothing to join. However the system here is such that they are required to accumlate certain number of points from Extra-Curicular Activities in the four years that they are in school. Expulsion from a club will nullify whatever points he's earned from that club up to the point of expulsion, therefore it becomes a very serious matter to expel a student.

It is our view that because fencing desecended from the use of live weapons, and because current equipment can still cause significant amount of injury, a certain type of discipline is required, especially of students new to the sport. Therefore we have adopted a military model for running the club, with a hierachy of coaches and trainers administering to the club.

[remise]

It sounds like this kid REALLY might have something else going on other than being brash. If he has a disorder, I wouldn't recommend humiliating him. He'll just get angrier and more disruptive and his parent(s) might view it as discrimination. Instead, I'd simply make him "sit out" during the bouting/bladework and allow him to do all of the drills/footwork that does not involve a weapon. Make getting the weapon a privilege as well as bouting. It would be a nasty "time out", but if this kid really has some issues, the "time out" would work a lot faster and be a more powerful inducement than humiliation. (Remember, humiliation would be negative attention. He might like it).

[Talyn]

If he likes humiliation then tie him up and burn him on the stake...


If that doesn't work then drop him into the sea with big fat rocks on his legs (make sure they're secure) If he floats then he's a WITCH and you should throw everything you have at him ...including other troublesome kids

[big poppa]

The longer I coach the more i believe that a tight class structure in vital. Disruptive students waste time . I used to wonder why Karate /Judo classes were so formal .Now I know. for me in a 90 min session Ill lose 20 min of training . so here what i did. student who want one on one training come 30 min eairlier. class is 10 min run, 15 min footwork, 10 min target pratice. 20 min paired drills. I do not allow a lot of talking or horse play.