Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

edew · 10-01-2003, 06:28 PM

Just watching a tape from the 1999 WCs. Bianco from Italy advances at Argiolas of France. Argiolas retreats and puts a point in line. Bianco continues, impales herself on the point while making a hit.

Referee signals a point in line.

Chambers, in trying to fit a parry into it, says, "If you go to slo-mo, you will see that Argiolas finds the blade and makes a parry riposte."

Pathetic.

Mel · 10-01-2003, 07:57 PM

He's really awful. Leaving aside his lack of fencing insight, he's a very poor broadcaster. Even though the powers-that-be at Eurosport may be unaware of the problems that would be obvious to us as fencers, surely it's obvious to them that he's a very bad commentator in general.

veeco · 10-01-2003, 08:32 PM

Come on, why do you think they have him cover fencing after all?

If he was that good a broadcaster, he would be cover more mainstream sports, like soccer, ski, or tennis...

Mel · 10-01-2003, 10:19 PM

James Chambers' background is in fencing, not broadcasting (I don't know what his professional background is). He was (is still???) president of the British Fencing Federation. I wonder how he ending up commentating? Do you think maybe Eurosport called the federation for advice, and he suggested himself??! No idea, just a thought.

But you're probably right, the Eurosport people in Britain probably didn't care enough about fencing to actually bother to audition him or make an effort to choose someone good (and he's been doing it for *years*, he's had enough time to improve at this stage, but he's NOT GETTING BETTER!!). Come on Eurosport. I think the other Eurosport offices (i.e. in France, Italy etc) care more about fencing, they make more of an effort to find good commentators/broadcasters. Actually, I think in France, they usually have two commentators, a professional broadcaster and a high-level fencer.

Just noticed you're in France, do you have Eurosport? Will the world championships be shown on the national French channels too?

Mel · 10-01-2003, 10:27 PM

Actually, just so I'm not totally hard on James Chambers, there are some things that are positive. I think he's got a good voice for broadcasting, and I think he explains the basics well for people who don't know fencing (i.e. this is epee, this is the target etc). Maybe all that needs to be done is pairing him with someone who's a better *fencing* commentator. Probably a different one for each weapon, then maybe Chambers could just concentrate on the basics, and talk about things like who the fencers are etc. Just leave the fencing to the experts. I mean, I wouldn't expect a high-level epeeist (who's a very good epee commentator) to commentate on foil or sabre, so how do Eurosport expect this guy to do all three weapons?

Tomas N · 10-01-2003, 10:44 PM

I think it's on the golden bouts video. Golubitsky is fencing Kim. I can't really say that I've analyzed the commentary, but one thing is for certain. The broadcaster actually sounds excited to be announcing fencing. Now the Eurosport commentators that we've had recently (in a language that I still can't place) are the most boring on earth. I'd give up some accuracy for an enthusiastic voice. We need a John Madden of fencing.

Maybe someone who is selling tapes add some voiceover commentary to see how it works. Since no one (in the U.S. at least ) can watch live fencing, you could actually figure out what the action is and call it very accurately. Add in a bit of enthusiasm, and you could have a hit on your hands.

Tomas

edew · 10-02-2003, 02:56 AM

None of the commentators see the action live. They all see what we see, a live video feed and they commentate on what they see on TV, not live at the venue.

Gav · 10-02-2003, 06:29 AM

James Chambers isn't the president of British Fencing. Yes he is, or was, a fencer.

Epeecurean · 10-02-2003, 08:41 AM

edew is right. It's all a live video feed which makes it extremely difficult to commentate on. I spoke with James about this and he says the eurosport fencing commentators in each country get the live feed but almost no supplementary information, so he/she has to figure out what's going on at the venue, who's fencing, etc. He said that it is Eurosport's policy to broadcast all world championships live, though this comes at the cost of a slicker production.

I DO like the immediacy of a live broadcast and hopefully the FIE's efforts to make the WCs more media friendly (including running on a tighter schedule) will result in a better show this year. However, I would also like to see a post-event edit of the tapes with more colour, play-by-play, analysis, slo-mo's etc. Maybe even a some quick explanatory segments on basic fencing strategy/tactics near the beginning. And how about some graphics and stats? A run-down of the tableau? Highlights of some early round bouts on how each fencer got to the finals? Pre- and post-bout interviews with fencers, coaches, etc.? TV tennis would be a good model. Or even 'Late Night Poker'. If you've ever seen that, you'll know what I mean.

Zelda · 10-02-2003, 09:02 AM

I really have never worked out what is more scary,
1. The fact late night poker is on TV
or
2. The fact I used to watch it on TV when in London...though it worked almost as well as my sleeping tablets in putting me into the land of nod.

veeco · 10-02-2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mel

Just noticed you're in France, do you have Eurosport? Will the world championships be shown on the national French channels too?

I have Eurosport and they will show 2 hours of fencing each night IIRC. They will also show 1/2 hour rundown of the evening's finals on national TV every night with a longer 2 hour version on the week-end.

Gav · 10-02-2003, 09:41 AM

There are 2 threads on this very topic at the UK fencing forum. Due to the unreliable nature of Eurosports Schedules there appears to be 2 different sets of times [one of which is Tivo derived].

Take a look ....

http://fencingforum.com/forum/showth...=&threadid=132

http://fencingforum.com/forum/showth...=&threadid=871

edew · 10-02-2003, 02:06 PM

I should also add that the subsequent tapes that I've received from Peter G were in Norwegian (or Swedish...they're pretty much the same, no?). While I don't know any of the scandinavian languages, their words for attack, parry, riposte, and such are pretty close to "attack," "parry,", "riposte" and such.

While these commentators were a bit too monotone to my taste (maybe it's the northern european staid attitude), they explained the actions as it happened. When the fencer made a parry riposte, you can hear them say, "parry, riposte." When the fencer made an attack and the other made a counter-attack, they said, "attack, counter-attack." When it looked like the referee was wrong (and you can see it from the fencers' reaction), the commentators made a comment like, "ho-ho-ho, svensk fijek skdjelk parry riposte van left fgik ekfyll not remise faktnin on right..."

These commentators, as I said above, see the same feed that we see, including the slo-mos and whatever.

The problem is that Chambers would continue to reiterate the claim of a "bashing parrying and then a riposte" when in fact, the slo-mo (that he gets to see as well, and comment on) shows that there was no blade engagement at all, just an attack/counter-attack.

edew · 10-02-2003, 06:13 PM

I just watched some more of the 1999 World Championships and watched the men's team epee gold between France and Germany. Chambers here is a bit more articulate and insightful. While he still had bouts of describing phantom parry ripostes, he was very insightful to the strategies both teams were using, why they were standing and staring each other down, why they were making particular types of attacks or actions, and so on.

The crucial bout was the Srecki-Fiedler bout where Srecki pulled out ahead after coming in with a three touch deficit. The bout between Obry and Schmitt was also crucial as Schmitt couldn't convert against Obry and Obry stayed ahead by 5.

It was quite an exciting match, and the standing down each other, I thought, made the match more interesting rather than pallid. When Meelis Loit did it against Hungary in the 2001, it was pathetically comical. But when Di Martino and Fielder stood still for the last 45 seconds or so, it was tense, and made all the correct sense in the world. I think the manifest passivity rule should give the referee more latitude to not be enforced in the situation where the two fencers aren't going to fight, but the context made sense. When a jokester like Loit doesn't want to fight, ding him with a yellow card instead. When serious fencers like Fiedler and Di Martino are standing still, there's a good reason, and actually enhances the tension in the match.