Hi Jennifer,
> What is a surprise to me is why the absence of blade seems prevalent in
> sport fencing. What is the perceived advantage?
I'll take a different reason from Brian (not a contradiction, just an additional
reason): The advantage is that it's incredibly effective when you successfully
deceive attempted takings. The opponent has had to move into your attack
distance and then search for your blade: while doing so you disengage and hit.
Used classically in French style foil ("derobement"), while Italian style
certainly emphasized blade takings, it's considerably refined in the modern
sport, especially with the fast, ballistic footwork now employed. Putting it
another way: attempting to take the blade itself creates a risk.
Hi Robert,
>Nadi also encouraged the central invitation, meaning
>that ALL lines were open, which is something I don't
>recall Gaugler teaching, and I don't follow.
I'm with you there (see, we can agree once in a while). Other classical
stylists, and certainly Italian stylists teach with the line closed (which I
think is the dominant mode now in SF). The rationale being that at least one
line is closed and hence safe.
>It would appear that this unpleasant, though great, fencer stuck to the old
>ways. Is anyone going to suggest he was holding himself back by not going
>with the extending lunge?
But, he chose to deviate from classical form in other areas, such as raising his
rear heel, sliding on the lunge, inviting in central position, and (if you see
the photographs) leaning deeply forward. I would say that Nadi felt free to
innovate when he felt he it gave an advantage. Recall the rude comment of his I
quoted about resistance to innovation.
>Again, my problem with most "beat attacks" into an invitation are beats
>followed by a bent arm (extending...doubtful) thrust into the opponent's
>counterattack (specifically, an arrest).
If the fencer beats and then doesn't extend his/her arm, then shame on him and
shame on the director. As you say, the beat itself does not create an attack
(See t.56(a)4, for example.) Most beats are, however, followed by an
extension,and a counterattack into it is simply wrong unless it is a
counterattack with opposition that closes the line and prevents the touch. "If
it were sharp" the counter-attacker got himself killed.
>Many of my students get frustrated with their arrests not getting priority
over >a faulty simple attack without right of way
There's also the possibility that they're simply wrong. Counterattacking into a
simple beat-lunge is tempting fate too much. If the guy who did the beat really
wasn't extending, they should be able to nail him in tempo way before the coup
finale arrives. If they're not doing that consistently (or the director doesn't
agree with 'em) they should parry and riposte like the rest of us mortals.
>The gulf between what will keep a swordsman alive in armed combat and what
>earns points on a strip with big, flexible metal sticks is continuing to
>widen, and too many people new to our avocation will decide it's simply not
>worth it.
Yet, sport fencing is growing in numbers - dramatically, when compared to
previous decades. And, the same conflict exists internally within CF between "as
if it were sharp" and "a touch only counts if it were done with properly
executed form" (formalism trumps reality). That's a big contradiction, but it
lets different people do different things that they all enjoy. Nothing wrong
with that.
>Great thread, BTW
Discussion of fencing may not be as great as fencing itself, but it's pretty
darn good! And if we all agreed about everything it would be booooring.
Cheers, Jeff
--
Jeff Savit
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