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R. Exnicios · 09-25-2003, 02:15 AM

To jump to the end of the story the fencer was fine after a trip to the Hospital.

I wanted to pass on a scary story that happened this past weekend. (It’s not as scary as the epee through the mask but ..)

I was refereeing at a tournament this weekend. The bout I was refereeing had just ended, it was the semi final so after the fencers signed the score sheet I walked over to the table to start the stop watch so the winner would get his 10 min break before the final. I turn back around to see the fencer who had just lost the bout collapsed on the floor having convulsions! He was/is a young man in what appeared to be good condition. I rush over and he is convulsing, his eyes are rolling to the back of his head and he cannot speak. His pulse rate was near 200. It was heat stroke. We were very lucky in that we wear able to get him cooled down & stable very quickly. The Hospital was only a few minutes away.

There was no doctor or nurse at the tournament; luckily this episode did not take a turn for the worse. My First Aid CPR class was more than 10 years ago! I'm going to sign up to renew and update my First-Aid and CPR a soon as possible.

See you at the Red Cross class!

JEC · 09-25-2003, 02:24 AM

Treatment for convulsions is just supportive. Don't stick anything under the tongue, but loosen clothes (if possible) and as soon as it finishes, turn the person to the side. Convulsions are a symptom, and in this case, it might have been a sign of Heat stroke. Unclothe the person, try to lower temperature with physical means (ice) and call 911 get the person to the hospital ASAP. It is a medical emergency.

R. Exnicios · 09-25-2003, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JEC
Treatment for convulsions is just supportive. Don't stick anything under the tongue, but loosen clothes (if possible) and as soon as it finishes, turn the person to the side. Convulsions are a symptom, and in this case, it might have been a sign of Heat stroke. Unclothe the person, try to lower temperature with physical means (ice) and call 911 get the person to the hospital ASAP. It is a medical emergency.

That's exactly what we did. It's funny how many people have said "put something in their mouth..." It's a good way to get a nasty bite!

One of the problems I had was finding out if he had fallen or had layed down.

Thanks for posting the treatment.

Cheers

Gav · 09-25-2003, 02:30 AM

Scary.

I'm surprised that we haven't had more of this sort of thing at my club. We are hostd by a swimming pool and during summer it can get a bit tropical [even in Scotland].

Now for my story.

I was at a recent competition and had wandered through to another hall to see how a couple of clubmates were doing. I was standing around chatting and watching the current bout when I noticed that one of the fencer was clutching his chest. Turned out that a blade had snapped and punched through the jacket. As it turned out the broken end had only grazed the fencers chest [leaving a 3" gash - not very deep]. We had some St Johns ambulance people on hand and they quickly patched him up, he was very lucky he didn't need stitches. He bought himself a new jacket and plastron and got on with his fencing. Scary at the time.

Thanks to the volunteers! I don't know if you get St Johns ambulance service in the states, but it is a charitable organisation that provides volunteer ambulance and first aid service to public events. Usually it's off duty ambulance-men and kids doing the first aid training, sometimes there are proffesional doctors and paramedics on hand (lucky for me at a rock festival - another story). It's a very useful service.

swordsen · 09-25-2003, 04:25 AM

Considering the gear we wear and the lack of AC in places we play in I have always been surpirsed by how few heat injuries we get. Fencers are good about hydration.

OCTAVIA · 09-25-2003, 03:11 PM

Richard, sorry I wasn't there, I know a couple of people with grande mal seizure disorder and I used to have petite mal seisure disorder due to a childhood brain injury. It doesn't keep most people off the strip.

"Be that as it may" [to quote], he set the brain pattern to accept another one if he's not careful. I hope he's okay. I guess correct hydration would be the answer to prevent those type of incidence in the future. Like many fencers who compete, they don't want to drink fluids near the strip because they don't want to 'bloat' and feel bogged down, if he learns to sip fluids throughout the day he'll remain hydrated without bloating.

Sabresque · 09-25-2003, 08:01 PM

Two epeeists were fencing at my club at one point, and they were both very strong (one was on the national team at the time). Before we knew it, one had broken their epee and stabbed the other in the leg. He was seriously injured, but they were able to stitch him up etc after they drove him into the hospital.

It was kind of strange though, in that he was very calm about it, dressed his own wound and walked himself out to the car as it was an everyday thing. Didn't even look in pain. I'm thinking shock, but who knows.

Another time at a local tournament, a fellow sabreur got himself stabbed in the leg also. He refused to check it, and kept fencing although the blood stain started to spread a lot on his knickers. In the meantime, we were all panicking. I don't think he ever did anything about it, but he had this HUGE blood stain all over one leg.

I've also been stabbed in the arm (very, very shallow, not even worth more than a bandaid, but it was still exciting). It's very good for guilt tripping the person that did it to me. "Look! Can't you see the scar??"

Most people don't see this much stuff. The main reason is noone was wearing FIE stuff. The first epeeist was wearing FIE knicers from like 1990, the sabreur didn't have FIE knickers on, and I was only wearing a t-shirt. FIE up for safety!

JEC · 09-25-2003, 10:01 PM

Sabresque,
I have been wearing FIE N800 Uhlmann WC knickers when the epee (not broken blade) of my opponent (B fencer) penetrated a junction between the spandex and normal fabric of my leading leg. The knickers were in excellent condition and had no visible tears. Fortunatel, his epee point only graze my leg superficially.

If you look this picture by Evan of Oiuyt, http://www.fencing101.com/Photo_Gall...=user&id=pdt12
you will see his lastname in the trailing leg, which is over the brighter fabric that is sewn vertically in between two layers of heavier fabric. That is where his point penetrated the uniform separating the layers and the breaking the stitches without tearing out the fabric. The point of my opponent had just a little knick that might have been slightly sharp but nothing out of the ordinary. So, even FIE uniform has its limitations.
I hope that you are rehabing well.
JEC

Rolls · 09-25-2003, 11:17 PM

One day at practice, we had a semi newbie (been there for a couple months) run right through the glass front of the building. This stuff was pretty thick glass. It cut up his legs pretty bad. Luckily, the really long glass shards didn't fall from where they were.

Now, don't ask me what went through the guy's mind to make him not stop when he saw the glass wall coming at him. He was all right. Didn't even want to go to the hospital. But I think he got embarrased because he stopped coming shortly after that.

Rolls.

Squall_Leonhart · 09-28-2003, 12:37 PM

This isn't neccessarily having to do with convulsions, but if the person is unconcious don't just turn him over to the side. There's a SPECIAL way to do it. whoohoo.
Depending on which side you turned him over on, rest his head on the arm that's on the floor (i.e. if you turned him to his right, his head should rest on his right arm) and his left leg ought to be bent at angle in front of him so he doesn't fall forward. and vice versa if it's the left. This is so if the person needs to vomit, he won't choke on his own bodily fluid.

Peach · 09-28-2003, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabresque
Another time at a local tournament, a fellow sabreur got himself stabbed in the leg also. He refused to check it, and kept fencing although the blood stain started to spread a lot on his knickers. In the meantime, we were all panicking. I don't think he ever did anything about it, but he had this HUGE blood stain all over one leg.

Because of the possibility of blood-bourne pathogens, it is discourteous for anyone to bleed all over things someone else might touch. Point that out the next time it happens.

JEC · 09-28-2003, 08:41 PM

As many of you have seen, in most professional sports (let's use NBA), as soon as there is blood the individual leaves and the blood has to be removed. Some of us have been around during the period of dark ages (not knowing transmission routes, etc) of HIV/AIDS, it is clear that there are known viruses (retroviruses, Hep B/C, etc) that can be transmitted by being in contact with contaminated blood with a mucosa or while having a break on your own barrier (small abrasion, nail cut, etc.). We certainly do not know about the epidemics of the future, but common sense can help protect us. This is not just a courtesy, but a right that is being infringed. The director in a fencing bout can use "common sense", but I don't recall any specific rule other than the "doctor/trainer" opinion about whether the fencer can continue fencing.

MikeHarm · 09-29-2003, 09:17 AM

I think you'd still get blackcarded for refusing to fence someone who was bleeding and wouldn't withdraw. Which doesn't make it much of a right under the rules I think.

Peach · 09-29-2003, 10:13 AM

You could appeal that kind of black card, and since it is a matter of legal liability (not to mention that getting infected is life-threatening) the choice is pretty easy.

MyraTrue · 09-30-2003, 04:27 AM

JEC- those knickers Oiuyt's wearing look like Uhlmann's style with the "stretch front pannels" of whatever they call them. I have to say that I have wondered if that very problem (blade into a seam) could happen. It makes me very glad to own my solid front LP's. I know this fear of penetration of seams is the reason for the underarm protector- no one can guarantee their seams, which is rather worrysome.

I appreciate good equipment, however. I took a broken foil to the mask two days ago, and I was thanking my lucky stars it was a new mask, especially when I saw how much it had gouged the mesh.

Mike Harm- I cannot belive that if a fencer stated they were unwilling to fence another fencer who was bleeding, for medical saftey issues, that they would be carded. I think it would be reasonable to request that the bleeding fencer attend to his/her injuries before you would fence them.

When I played rugby we were not allowed on the pitch if we were bleeding (thus the check of footwear and fingernails for possible blood-drawing sharp aspects).

swordsen · 09-30-2003, 06:33 AM

I have never seen a rugby game in which someone wasn't bleeding.

MyraTrue · 09-30-2003, 03:02 PM

They actually enforced that painfully so with us. However, we had broken fingers and ankles, klete to the face, kicks to the kidney, dislocated elbows and shoulders, etc. They didn't bleed, just hurt like nothin' else! Black eyes were always nice the next day, specially when you went to work! LOL

Myra

broncofencer · 09-30-2003, 06:47 PM

I was once told that FIE was not really anymore protective than non-fie stuff at the local level because the jagged breaks of non-fie blades may go through the fie stuff just as easily as non-fie but the thicker layers of non-fie stuff offers more protection in means of numbers (more layers/thicker layers to puncture) anyone know if there is any truth to this.
I usually tell my fencers wear a t-shirt and shorts under their plastron and knickers just for added protection. I also tell them to take water all the time as you lose more performance from dehydration than bloat.